Artisan Archive
Thread: Why is it 3cr per unit?
I see that in general people have settled on prices for items to be 3 x the cost of the resources used.
I am just curious as to why that figure?
The reason for my curiosity is that even with a basic harvester with an extraction rate of 2 on a 50% resource spot the cost to run it is about 0.6 cr per unit so if you sold those resources at 1 cr a unit you would be making a profit of 66%.
Therefore I could sell vehicles for 12k -15k be profitable and afford to live the life I am used to.
However I am sure if I did that there would be accusations of me trying to undercut the market (of course there won't be any now).
Selling at 3cr a unit equates to about 500% profit so I wonder who would be considered worse in this scenario.
Obviously everyone here wants (or most I am sure) to make as much money as possible, I am just curious as to how people feel about people like me who are happy to make less profit then others.
I guess there are several things to take into account, critical failures, the amount you sell, the time you are online and your outgoings for maintenance etc.
Still even with those on the big ticket items like harvesters you should still make enough at a lower cr per unit rate.
The other thing of course is that if people are prepared to pay that price then fine but I am thinking more of people who can't afford them.
This post really stems from a post I saw where somoene said they buy items sold at the wrong price and put them back on the bazaar at the right price.
The question is, who has the rigth to dictate what is the right price if the original seller is selling something and still making a profit?
I can understand being mad at people selling at a loss as clearly they either don't know how to work out their profit or they just want to sell more for whatever reason.
The flawed argument I keep seeing is that since you can easily sell resources at 3cr each, then selling any item for under 3cr each somehow results in a loss. If someone bought all their resources at 3cr each, then yes... selling for under that would be a net loss.To say someone is taking a loss by undercutting that 3cr ea. based price, is simply untrue as you pointed out. Resources cost well under .30 each for me on average because I harvest them myself. There's no way someone who only buys their resources can compete price-wise with those of us who harvest them ourselves. The "right price" is whatever price you set that makes both you and your customers happy.
well if you noticed.....the current crets to item are not in keeping with the relm of SWG...
1.npc missions and queste pay very low....witch is in keeping with the relm of swg.....sums of 50c and 200c for missions.....
2.mission terms were never suposed to be the main income to the game...it was suposed to be missions/quests....the mission terms were for the casuial game to forgo the huning down of a npc for a mission....
3.players didnt like that....and wined and complaned about them not paying out enough...so they changed it
thuss the inflation of the credit ensued....
people noticed that the max you could place an item on the bazzar for was 3000$...and then people thought it was a good idea to place raw resorses on the bazzar for 3c per one unit....in essence....1000 ore = 3000 credits...and becouse people were babied by the now higher mission payouts...this 3 to 1 was accepted and has become the standerd.....
sadley to say...becouse of this 10k= about 1 us dollor...but comparsion....everyone has armor and whatnot ...and the entire eccominey has been set to such highlvls ...thats why you see all the tak about money sinks....
i realy wish they would put the mission payouts back to what they were...it would bring back the strugle of this game and not everyone would be millionares......
but its a player created ecominey and the first few players made this rediouclious inflation...becouse of shere greed...never considering what it would do...
your math is correct...but this game uses stupid math.....perces ahould be by demand....thoes that sell by the "it cousts what i took to make it" theroy are distrying this ecominy....
but basicly to answer your question...it was becouse its easy to put 1k of somthing on the bazzar at 3k
sorry for the rant...but its realy buged me.i HATE the inflation that has ensued....people just dont realize that 100 credits could = 1000 credits....but people like big numbers in games...HUGE rediulious numbers...
/shrug
Nothing stops you from trying to do that. Anyone should feel free to sell resources at 1cpu or sell items made at 1cpu if they want to. However, I bet their miner/crafter careers will be short.
In the end it's the market that decide the proper cost of resources/items. If you don't want to pay what everybody else pays, do it yourself. It is your choice.
You are neglecting overhead when you come up with the cost of .6 cpu in your example. Someone selling resources, just resources not finished products, has alot of overhead. Overhead includes things like:
- Power
- Re-Deeding Costs
- House Maintenance
- Factory Maintenance
- Vendor Maintenance
- Travel Tickets
All of these things arenecessary expenses for someone who is trying to run a business. When all of these things are factored into the final cost of resources you will find that selling at 1cpu is actually selling at a loss.
In this light I personally feel charging 3cpu for raw resources is reasonable.
In my situation I am now to the point where I am unable to keep up with demand by gathering my own resources. A combination of lack of lots and lack of time makes it impossible. I do gather some but I cannot possibly gather all. So I end up paying at least 3cpu and I have paid up to 7cpu for rare resources. That means that my base cost for resources not including the overheadI mentioned above is around 4-5cpu on average. Some items average more and others less. So I personally sell my finished products for around 7cpu.
There are some exceptions to this thatsome people will be quick to point out. It is quite easy to find small houses selling at prices less than 2cpu for example. However things like this are the result of a overabundance of supply caused by the fact thatarchitects grindexperience on small houses and are willing to sell at a loss to recoup some of the expense of leveling.
Think of overhead, time and skill involved. Then, assuming you're not in it as a charity, add profit. Trade and economic simulations seem to expose the closet Marxists.
We charge what the market supports. If my batteries didn't sell at 3k per crate then maybe 2500 per crate the next week. If I walk into town intending to sell Swoops at 50k and 10 people get into a bidding war to 1 million, I'm not going to say, "Just 50k, folks, first come first served!"
Jayces wrote:I see that in general people have settled on prices for items to be 3 x the cost of the resources used.
I am just curious as to why that figure?
Note that grind-quality resources are worth 3cpu, but 1000 conductivity and 990 OQ copper is worth much more than 3cpu. The price for any given resource depends on what the market is willing to pay for it.
I see that in general people have settled on prices for gold to be about $400 per ounce, and for oil to be about $30 per barrel.
I am just curious as to why those figures.
Answer: Because the purpose of a commodities market is to set prices.
I am A quite sucessful mineral harvester in the Naritus Galaxy
I have made it my business to sell and mine raw minerals and chemicals and other resources.
when i first strted out i could make a personal mineral extractor at Base 4 extraction rate. i'd place it on a 70 - 85% efeicency resource usually a steel or copper. so you will get an average of 2.6 to 3.2 extraction
now you grind math at 30 creds/hr mantianance and 25u/hr power consumption to get 1k or material to make 3k credits you must run the extrator at least 3 hours. so that is 90 credits and 75 power to get 75 power you run your base 6 wind power geneator at 40% (2.2extraction) to get 75 power you run your generator for 15 minutes but for pactiaclity you run it for 1 hour which is 60 credits so at the end of the day you spend 150 credits to give you 3000 that is 2850 then you put it on the bazzar for 20 credits your now at 2830 credits net value which you invest into another extractor and double your output but the good news is that that one power generator can power 2 extractors esialy and 3 if you place it right.
thats 120 credits an hour for 2 extractors and one wind generator.
A different way to look at it is catagorizing cost, Total lost cost is you wind Generators that is 60 credits an hour that you will not likely make direct profit in BUT that 60 credits gets you aprox 200 power that is 4 hours extractor power getting you aprox 1200 units in 4 hours but that is 120 more credits total of 180 credtis round to 200 to include bazzar listing and that will give you 2800 profit puls surplus minerals and power for you too use. i consistantly carry 4 or 5 k of manny minerals on me for either p2p sales and crafting.
on the sales side i sell out every day in steel and fiberplast i cannot keep up i must not sell some because i need to use some, i sell 1k resource for 3k as a flat rate any resource 1k for 3k i sell out. the items i craft i sell for a low cost ex: a cdef carbine speed 3.4 min 26 max 48 unsliced i'll sell for just 100 to 150 it takes 12 mineral 8chem and 3 mineral thats total of 23 units aproxamately 7 credits per unit
so selling raw mierals will not drive you to the ground... In Fact... i bought a house for 300K just recently and still have 20k to throw away, i bought a 9000 credit pistol and a 19k siut of armor with out jepordaizing my harvesters maintaince. all this not counting the constant trips from dantooine to corellia two three times a day. (2600 round trip) all this with a 20k buffer incase a harvester is forgoten (accidenally deleted a waypoint)
- house and vendor mantenace included
if your in the naritus galaxy look up Tarthos for resources
and Mercy to become a citizen of our fine city. about 2500m south of the imperial outpost on dantoine.
3cpu is fair price, for mid grade resources.
I sell Grinding materials at 2.5cpu AND RARELY go below 2.5cpu..
I sell good qual resources for 5-10cpu even if the resource is currently on the server for harvesting.
I sell extremely uber resources that have been on the server for months and are in low quantities for as much as 100cpu.
Call it greed but, it's really supply and demand. I can't keep up with demands so I raise the prices, this slows the demands down a little bit so I am able to maintain an inventory. ANY good merchant knows that having EMPTY shelfs from which to try and sell things, is the worst business. While it MAY APPEAR nice to be contantly sold out, it prohibits you from maintaining a good shop, having a good shop, competivite prices and consitency in products brings better long-term business. Besides if i want something to move faster I can always reduce the price, and people will buy just because of the price.
In some senario's I COULD make a profit off 1cpu for a raw material, such cases would be like this: You find a HUGE 90% radious of a resource you drop all 10 heavy BER 13 harvestors on it and use >500 OQ power. You harvest for 1 week, you pull it up and sell all of it for 1cpu, This is great because it was RIGHT next to your shop, same planet you do business on, and was some quick cash.
Now lets still do the math for someone saying I will sell my vehicles @ 1cpu for the resources required.... I have to take time to collect the power for harvestors, I have to find the places to collect the resources, I have to make all the sub components, and then make the final product, and I made 1cpu, WHY?? when i can just drop the same resources on the bazaar and make the same amount of cash and have WAY LESS LABOR put into the money?
I'm sorry, but my TIME is worth more than that. I have made 200cpu - 500cpu off weapons, why would I stoop to 1cpu? Call it greed, but really if the people will pay, then thats what it really is worth..
How about in RL? A contractor makes WAY MORE money off labor than he does off of supplies? Is he Wrong in this? Absolutle not. Time = Money
Truth of the matter is this GO AHEAD and sell your vehicles @ 1cpu of the resources used to build the vehicles. And you will soon find yourself OUT of a job, SURE you will have UBER influx of business @ first but the lack of supply will cause you to run out of business. A GOOD SOUND business takes these things into consideration. Which clearly you have not. Remember that theres a difference of being BUSY and Being in BUSINESS.
Mud- wrote:
Remember that theres a difference of being BUSY and Being in BUSINESS.
In-game, the distinction is much smaller. We all ply our trade mostly for our enjoyment (I hope..). It's a tradeoff: some prefer to sell low and have lots of sales, some prefer to sell high and have less sales (and spend less time as a result). Both are valid playstyles.
But your explanation is a good one. I always calculate the base cost of my items at 3 cpu and put my profit on top of that, simply because I can sell the raw materials at 3 cpu on the bazaar.
I'm a Master Weaponsmith/Master Artisan/Master Marksmanon Gorath. When I price out my weapons I don't take resources into account at all. I price based on the skill required to use a gun, and the skill required to make a gun. Then I take into account the quality of resources I used and the result I got. Not to mention whether or not I required a factory to build identical componants. And then there is whether or not Iused standard or advanced componants. When I make custom guns, I price based on how valuable my resources are to me - that is, if I am low on a rare resource, I charge more for guns/componants that require it.
There's a lot more that goes into a good gun than the resources.
As far as 3cpu, that's the most I'll pay on the bazaar or at a vendor. If I can find someone who has rare resources of a decent quality, I'd pay maybe 4 or 5. But I'd go broke if I did that. I have to mine it all.
The problem is, with guns anyway, is that any master of a combat profession can go with two or three friends and do missions at 5-10k a pop. Four people, 8 missions in the same direction, easily 50-70k between the group in45 minutes. I've been hunting only once. Two hours with three people frommy guild, a Novice TKA, a Master Smuggler, and a Master Doctor/Combat Medic. I spent my last 6k on getting to Yavin4, when I returned to Corellia I had 60k. And man was it a bag load of fun. Nothing like grinding up to Weaponsmith.
You can't tell me that a decentweapon is only worth 7credits per resource. A FWG5 takes 147 resources, that's about 1k. I've sold them with standard componants for 4k without a complaint, and got a 1k tip on top of it. I could probably sell them for 5500 or 6k. And I still think that's too cheap. Given the current state of the SWG economy, there's no way that any Master Weaponsmith anywhere should be selling FWG5s for less than 50k. It might sound steep, but given the return on investment, I think that that is more than fair.
CDEFs are only worth 150, 300-350 for an amazing one. But even a DH17 carbine made by a master weaponsmith with great resouces should be going for 10k, not under 2k.
We're getting ripped off by the combat classes. And worst of all, we're letting them do it.