Armorsmith Archive
Thread: Some CU crafting notes
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Kalandra
Mon Apr 18, 2005 10:23 pm
#1
ok. the first stuff I made was with 12 primus layers, which had +59/+59 standard, and -60 all special
It came out 5382/3382/2952
the second stuff I made was completely unlayered
It came out 4804/2804/3804
the frogged stuff is 6944/4944/5944
I'm assuming there is a standard formula for assault armour where the base is eg 5944, kinetic is 1k above, energy is 1k below.
The second set was about 53% experimental effectiveness, one assumes that 100% experimental effectiveness will be 7177 (and therefore 8177/6177/7177)
I tested slicing earlier on the frogged advanced/basic, and the advanced sliced at a standard 7%, the basic at 23%. I'm not sure whether these are static numbers, or if the 7% was max because the slice came in above the armour's max. I only managed to slice one basic armour, but will keep you posted.
Ruebacca
Tue Apr 19, 2005 7:43 am
#2
I am going to mass produce mid-high quality armor. but not use across the board high quality resorces. If the above is true.
Garnax
Tue Apr 19, 2005 12:01 pm
#3
I think slicing has diminshing returns also. Ie slicing a really great armor adds less protection than slicing a crappy basic one. Who knows, if you combine slice+craft it might actually turn out it is better not to craft as good as you can. *shrugs*
SolSpur
Tue Apr 19, 2005 2:31 pm
#4
Hmm, the numbers dont add up as it seems layered is only slightly better then unlayered.
salvestrom
Tue Apr 19, 2005 9:24 pm
#5
If the effectivenesss of armour is only slightly affected by layering, that's a good thing. Someone might come to you and say they want a suit with the full works, but mostly you might get away with only partial or even completely unlayered suits.
Sal
Fellstaff
Tue Apr 19, 2005 9:32 pm
#6
Not gonna happen. Dimishing returns doesn't mean negative returns...IF you slice a piece thats 10000 and get 10% and slice a piece thats 8000 and get 20% improvement, the higher base armor is still better (11000 vs 9600). They would never put it in a situation where lower quality sliced is better than high quality sliced.
Garnax wrote:
I think slicing has diminshing returns also. Ie slicing a really great armor adds less protection than slicing a crappy basic one. Who knows, if you combine slice+craft it might actually turn out it is better not to craft as good as you can. *shrugs*
TitanTen
Tue Apr 19, 2005 10:27 pm
#7
Fellstaff wrote:
Not gonna happen. Dimishing returns doesn't mean negative returns...IF you slice a piece thats 10000 and get 10% and slice a piece thats 8000 and get 20% improvement, the higher base armor is still better (11000 vs 9600). They would never put it in a situation where lower quality sliced is better than high quality sliced.
Garnax wrote:
I think slicing has diminshing returns also. Ie slicing a really great armor adds less protection than slicing a crappy basic one. Who knows, if you combine slice+craft it might actually turn out it is better not to craft as good as you can. *shrugs*
Never underestimate the power of the devs. The plotting of the percentages of resists on the graph with respect to # of points leads to the situation where points > 10000 is equal to resists dropping.
Also the slicing as I understand it will only let you get near to an upper limit on effectiveness, which I assume was the goal of the devs when they added lower gains for higher end stuff while slicing.
Anyway I still hold to the belief that 60% resist is the max resist we can achieve, through slicing or creation. And that is at 10000 points.
Fellstaff
Tue Apr 19, 2005 10:47 pm
#8
For ALL armorsmiths AND smugglers this needs to be addressed before it goes live. Slicing SHOULD improve armor. IF the MAXIMUM craftable is 10,000, then slicing it should still give SOME improvement (hence the 10%) I quoted. Sliced armor with lower base statistics should never be the same or better than sliced armor of higher base stats. I'm not a big supporter of the higher prices that came about because of 'uber' crafted items, but someone that legitimately crafts something at 100% of the maximum values should have something thats better than something at 80%.
TitanTen wrote:
Fellstaff wrote:
Not gonna happen. Dimishing returns doesn't mean negative returns...IF you slice a piece thats 10000 and get 10% and slice a piece thats 8000 and get 20% improvement, the higher base armor is still better (11000 vs 9600). They would never put it in a situation where lower quality sliced is better than high quality sliced.
Garnax wrote:
I think slicing has diminshing returns also. Ie slicing a really great armor adds less protection than slicing a crappy basic one. Who knows, if you combine slice+craft it might actually turn out it is better not to craft as good as you can. *shrugs*
Never underestimate the power of the devs. The plotting of the percentages of resists on the graph with respect to # of points leads to the situation where points > 10000 is equal to resists dropping.
Also the slicing as I understand it will only let you get near to an upper limit on effectiveness, which I assume was the goal of the devs when they added lower gains for higher end stuff while slicing.
Anyway I still hold to the belief that 60% resist is the max resist we can achieve, through slicing or creation. And that is at 10000 points.
Brutus_Krylop
Tue Apr 19, 2005 10:57 pm
#9
I just did an interesting little test . . .
I made a piece of assault armoron TC-Ep3 using really crappy resources and a basic core:
Kinetic: 2866
Energy: 866
ACEH: 1866
After slicing, it became:
Kinetic: 3026
Energy: 1026
ACEH: 2026
I made another piece of assault armor on TC-Ep3, again with crappy resources, but this time without experimenting. I also used an advanced core.
Kinetic: 2782
Energy: 782
ACEH: 1782
Post-slice:
Kinetic: 4229
Energy: 2229
ACEH: 3229
Note that while the second piece was statistically inferior to the first piece pre-slice, because it was made with an advanced core, it becomes significantly better than the first piece post-slice.
Fellstaff
Tue Apr 19, 2005 11:01 pm
#10
This is really significant, they are differentiating between advanced and base cores, so armor that uses advanced cores can increase more from a slice than armor with basic cores. Have no fear, those novice armorsmiths making bone armor won't beat you out if you can use adv cores and they can only use basic
Brutus_Krylop wrote:
I just did an interesting little test . . .
I made a piece of assault armoron TC-Ep3 using really crappy resources and a basic core:
Kinetic: 2866
Energy: 866
ACEH: 1866
After slicing, it became:
Kinetic: 3026
Energy: 1026
ACEH: 2026
I made another piece of assault armor on TC-Ep3, again with crappy resources, but this time without experimenting. I also used an advanced core.
Kinetic: 2782
Energy: 782
ACEH: 1782
Post-slice:
Kinetic: 4229
Energy: 2229
ACEH: 3229
Note that while the second piece was statistically inferior to the first piece pre-slice, because it was made with an advanced core, it becomes significantly better than the first piece post-slice.
The high end still needs to be examined. Armor thats 10,000pre-slice should slice higher than armor thats 9900 pre-slice. It would be nice if one of the crafters thats on a clone server would test it out using their 'uber' resources.
TitanTen
Tue Apr 19, 2005 11:02 pm
#11
add that to our 1303472 other massive concerns....
Fellstaff wrote:
For ALL armorsmiths AND smugglers this needs to be addressed before it goes live. Slicing SHOULD improve armor. IF the MAXIMUM craftable is 10,000, then slicing it should still give SOME improvement (hence the 10%) I quoted. Sliced armor with lower base statistics should never be the same or better than sliced armor of higher base stats. I'm not a big supporter of the higher prices that came about because of 'uber' crafted items, but someone that legitimately crafts something at 100% of the maximum values should have something thats better than something at 80%.
Fellstaff
Tue Apr 19, 2005 11:05 pm
#12
Armorsmith isn't the only profession in the game. Considering Blixtev has actually posted here, Armorsmiths are doin good. Commandos are the only other prof that got a direct response from a dev, everyone else is relying on their correspondents to do their job and communicate both ways.
TitanTen wrote:
add that to our 1303472 other massive concerns....
Fellstaff wrote:
For ALL armorsmiths AND smugglers this needs to be addressed before it goes live. Slicing SHOULD improve armor. IF the MAXIMUM craftable is 10,000, then slicing it should still give SOME improvement (hence the 10%) I quoted. Sliced armor with lower base statistics should never be the same or better than sliced armor of higher base stats. I'm not a big supporter of the higher prices that came about because of 'uber' crafted items, but someone that legitimately crafts something at 100% of the maximum values should have something thats better than something at 80%.
Brutus_Krylop
Tue Apr 19, 2005 11:12 pm
#13
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