Armorsmith Archive
Thread: An apology of sorts to the AS Community.
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Tarwin-Cor
Tue Apr 19, 2005 3:05 pm
#2
I agree with Zion... and I agree with Exterminans77... here is the thing... they are making the game harder... and going to introduce a new planet... Man... when was the last time we had a new planet... that is awesome... you want content... there it is...
might I also point out... everyone complained about content... they released JTL... FLOP... JTL requires you to do missions left and right to get master... I hate that... I hate having to do content... stupid missions is not fun for me...
how many of us actually got the mission for the geo caves, and went there for the fact that we were saving the caves from the meltdown... Heck no... we went to the caves to beat up on some hard stuff, get some loot, and see and kill ackley... we did not care about the content... we cared about killing stuff and getting loot... =) and that is cool...
content is not about missions as I see it... it is about killing hard stuff inside of group... how awesome is it to be attacking like 5 Super Battle Droids at one time on the corvette run... and you feel your heart race because your health is going down and the medic of the group hasn't healed you yet... oh no... am I going to die... and you yell... "HEAL ME!!!!"... and at the last second... Boom... you are healed... wow... my heart races just thinking about it...
Or better yet... you are inside the Ancorhead cantina talking... and all of a sudden an imperial group of like 20 overts storms through and starts tearing up archorhead... so you buff and get out there... die a couple times... but kill a couple people too...
Those are th fun days that Zion is referring too... and those times are not because of the content of the game... but because you are in a group... it is awesome...
I am not saying that your concerns are not valid... But try to havea different perspective then the doom and gloom that everyone else has... I am pumped for the CU... I am going to love getting a group together instead of killing nightsisters all day by myself just to get damage crystals for my jedi... who gets to go grind in the middle of nowhere with nobody in a group... talk about boring... =)
Tarwin / Girgi
ZionHalcyon
Wed Apr 20, 2005 4:58 am
#3
Tarwin-Cor wrote:
I agree with Zion... and I agree with Exterminans77... here is the thing... they are making the game harder... and going to introduce a new planet... Man... when was the last time we had a new planet... that is awesome... you want content... there it is...
might I also point out... everyone complained about content... they released JTL... FLOP... JTL requires you to do missions left and right to get master... I hate that... I hate having to do content... stupid missions is not fun for me...
how many of us actually got the mission for the geo caves, and went there for the fact that we were saving the caves from the meltdown... Heck no... we went to the caves to beat up on some hard stuff, get some loot, and see and kill ackley... we did not care about the content... we cared about killing stuff and getting loot... =) and that is cool...
content is not about missions as I see it... it is about killing hard stuff inside of group... how awesome is it to be attacking like 5 Super Battle Droids at one time on the corvette run... and you feel your heart race because your health is going down and the medic of the group hasn't healed you yet... oh no... am I going to die... and you yell... "HEAL ME!!!!"... and at the last second... Boom... you are healed... wow... my heart races just thinking about it...
Or better yet... you are inside the Ancorhead cantina talking... and all of a sudden an imperial group of like 20 overts storms through and starts tearing up archorhead... so you buff and get out there... die a couple times... but kill a couple people too...
Those are th fun days that Zion is referring too... and those times are not because of the content of the game... but because you are in a group... it is awesome...
I am not saying that your concerns are not valid... But try to havea different perspective then the doom and gloom that everyone else has... I am pumped for the CU... I am going to love getting a group together instead of killing nightsisters all day by myself just to get damage crystals for my jedi... who gets to go grind in the middle of nowhere with nobody in a group... talk about boring... =)
Tarwin / Girgi
Very well put, and it echoes my feelings as well.
Animi
Wed Apr 20, 2005 7:09 am
#4
ZionHalcyon wrote:
...I guess what I am saying is, there really isn't a reason to flame at all either way.
... As a member of the community, don't I have a right to do that as much as anyone else, regardless of whether I agree with the community as a whole or not?
Please. Just please. I am asking you to just read what I have in the spirit it is intended, and NOT to turn it into a flame war. We can disagree, but do it civilly.
I have been following this drama since it started and this is the first (and most likely the last) thing I will say about it.
I think the reason a lot of people have a problem with you, Zion, is because, on the one hand, you proclaim that you, like everyone else, should be able to voice your opinion, whether it's popular or not, and on the other hand, you TELL people how they should go about voicing theirs.
What I'm getting at is that one person's flame is another person's rational statement. You tend to do a lot of finger pointing ("stop flaming") and ordering people around ("let's stay on track"), when the fact is that many people ARE staying on track and ARE addressing the issues - just not ina way YOU see as constructive.
It's all highly subjective, so when you start ordering people to stop flaming and to stay on topic, the people you direct those comments at are bound to get upset with you. You have to realize that there are real people with real emotions behind those posts and that discounting the emotions as expressed is a huge no-no.
You tend to be dismissive of people's emotions when you don't agree with their opinion and you have to not do that. Be supportive. Try to understand where those people are coming from and then help them to deal with the anger. Saying they shouldn't be angry just doesn't cut it.
Just a little constructive criticism for you.
Shann0w
Wed Apr 20, 2005 7:31 am
#5
I have no idea what went on this weekend and I'm not going to investigate to find out. However, the consequences of CU are so big and I believe bad that people getting upset about it is to be expected. I've tried every textual trick I could think of from trying to be reasonable, ranting, begging, and attacking. I'll probably continue to do so til CU goes live, then I'll morn for SWG and move on.
ZionHalcyon
Wed Apr 20, 2005 9:58 am
#6
Animi wrote:
ZionHalcyon wrote:
...I guess what I am saying is, there really isn't a reason to flame at all either way.
... As a member of the community, don't I have a right to do that as much as anyone else, regardless of whether I agree with the community as a whole or not?
Please. Just please. I am asking you to just read what I have in the spirit it is intended, and NOT to turn it into a flame war. We can disagree, but do it civilly.
I have been following this drama since it started and this is the first (and most likely the last) thing I will say about it.
I think the reason a lot of people have a problem with you, Zion, is because, on the one hand, you proclaim that you, like everyone else, should be able to voice your opinion, whether it's popular or not, and on the other hand, you TELL people how they should go about voicing theirs.
What I'm getting at is that one person's flame is another person's rational statement. You tend to do a lot of finger pointing ("stop flaming") and ordering people around ("let's stay on track"), when the fact is that many people ARE staying on track and ARE addressing the issues - just not ina way YOU see as constructive.
It's all highly subjective, so when you start ordering people to stop flaming and to stay on topic, the people you direct those comments at are bound to get upset with you. You have to realize that there are real people with real emotions behind those posts and that discounting the emotions as expressed is a huge no-no.
You tend to be dismissive of people's emotions when you don't agree with their opinion and you have to not do that. Be supportive. Try to understand where those people are coming from and then help them to deal with the anger. Saying they shouldn't be angry just doesn't cut it.
Just a little constructive criticism for you.
I understand that, but let's follow that logic to it's inevitable conclusion - essentially, that no matter what, when people disagree, its a flame, so we should either be allowed to flame away with impunity and without punishment, or we all should agree with each other.
In that, your argument shows its flaw, because neither are realistic. We for sure aren't going to always agree, but at the same time, just because someone is a bit oversensitive should not give them the right to flame either. There need to be rules to be followed. There needs to be structure.
The one thing I will agree, and am working on (as it is something I have taken away from all this), is that I do at least need to be conscious of people's emotions, and while not kowtowing to them, I need to at least not also berate them for what they feel emotionally is legitimate. That doesn't mean it is also logically legitimate, but I at the very least need to give people their space, and try not to come off so "above all that" when addressing people in that state, or perhaps, not addressing them at all until they calm down. That much of your post I understand, agree with, and I take the criticism graciously.
TitanTen
Wed Apr 20, 2005 10:00 am
#7
Zion, just let this die already. Your not going to make anyone who doenst liek you like you, and the people that dont dislike you, you shouldnt worry about.
Tarwin-Cor
Wed Apr 20, 2005 10:04 am
#8
Hey, Titan... if you want it to die... the best thing to do is not respond... and you guys are far to harsh... was that comment supposed to make him feel bad... or was it suppose to make the people that do not really know him feel bad... does it make you feel like a big man that you can make someone feel bad? is that your plan? to make yourself feel better at the expense of others...
oh well...
if you don't like him... don't respond to his posts, and he will get the message... by responding to post, you are saying... I don't want this to die... so, as I see it... you are being counter-productive...
oh... and if you hate me now for disagreeing with you... I can see the REAL reason that you do not like Zion... because he disagrees with your viewpoint... who cares... it is a freakin' game... if you are sooooo pissed off... quit... and the galaxy will be a better place without you...
Tarwin / Girgi
TitanTen
Wed Apr 20, 2005 10:49 am
#9
Tarwin-Cor wrote:
Hey, Titan... if you want it to die... the best thing to do is not respond... and you guys are far to harsh... was that comment supposed to make him feel bad... or was it suppose to make the people that do not really know him feel bad... does it make you feel like a big man that you can make someone feel bad? is that your plan? to make yourself feel better at the expense of others...
oh well...
if you don't like him... don't respond to his posts, and he will get the message... by responding to post, you are saying... I don't want this to die... so, as I see it... you are being counter-productive...
oh... and if you hate me now for disagreeing with you... I can see the REAL reason that you do not like Zion... because he disagrees with your viewpoint... who cares... it is a freakin' game... if you are sooooo pissed off... quit... and the galaxy will be a better place without you...
Tarwin / Girgi
yeah it was at the top already when i posted. I never said anywhere in that post i dont like zion. My feelings on the matter are my own.
I posted that because it is the truth. Nothing zion nor anyone on these forums can post a dang thing to change another person's opinions about another poster. It wasnt a flame or to make anyone feel bad, but it looks like it made you feel bad (don't know why...)
But feel free to disagree with me all you want, but keep youridiotic words (the ones bolded) to yourself. And dang man you have some pent up rage dont ya.
ZionHalcyon
Wed Apr 20, 2005 11:30 am
#10
Just one thing of note Titan - telling me to give it up was rather misplaced. I am not the one keeping this thread going, although I do respond to points here and there.
The point of the thread is not a popularity contest, it's because I felt I owed the community an apology on my behaviour, but at the same time, didn't want to mislead them into thinking this means I agree with them now. It was a thread to apologize and then be crystal clear on everything.... and then let it be.
Then again, like you say, people will think what they want to, and if you think I am doing this for popularity, then one thing I have learned this past weekend is there is nothing I can do to prove to you otherwise. All I know is I am being honest and open about my motivations, and people are welcome to accept them or not accept them at face value; at least I know that I was genuine, and that is what matters.
ZionHalcyon
Wed Apr 20, 2005 1:05 pm
#11
Cianhydle wrote:
Neeyner-Neeyner! I got the last word Zion!
Oh no you didn't!
Animi
Wed Apr 20, 2005 1:24 pm
#12
ZionHalcyon wrote:
I understand that, but let's follow that logic to it's inevitable conclusion - essentially, that no matter what, when people disagree, its a flame, so we should either be allowed to flame away with impunity and without punishment, or we all should agree with each other.
In that, your argument shows its flaw, because neither are realistic. We for sure aren't going to always agree, but at the same time, just because someone is a bit oversensitive should not give them the right to flame either. There need to be rules to be followed. There needs to be structure.
Notto belabor the issue, but the real point I was making by pointing out that it is all relative was not that people should be free to post whatever they want whenever they want, but that there are MODERATORS who enforce the rules. Neither you nor I are moderators and if we try to impose our interpretation of the forum's posting guidelines on other people, we are certain to experience some backlash from those people towards who we yell "foul!"
If you ever feel like someone is flaming or off topic, you should do what I do anduse that little "report post to moderators" function, rather than telling the person to knock it off or to "get back on track."Doing the former is a very effective way to control outbreaks and to keep posts on topic, while doing the latter makes you look like a bully.
I suspect that's why a lot of people were angry with you: they didn't like you telling them what they should and shouldn't do like you somehow had any say over the matter.
Combine that fact with the discounting of emotions that usuallygoes hand-in-hand with commands to "stop flaming" and to "stay on task" and you've got a recipe for disaster.
Anyway, I think you've probably had plenty of time to reflect on allthis, so I'll drop it now. Good luck to you.
Message Edited by Animi on 04-20-2005 03:26 PM
ZionHalcyon
Wed Apr 20, 2005 1:34 pm
#13
Animi wrote:
ZionHalcyon wrote:
I understand that, but let's follow that logic to it's inevitable conclusion - essentially, that no matter what, when people disagree, its a flame, so we should either be allowed to flame away with impunity and without punishment, or we all should agree with each other.
In that, your argument shows its flaw, because neither are realistic. We for sure aren't going to always agree, but at the same time, just because someone is a bit oversensitive should not give them the right to flame either. There need to be rules to be followed. There needs to be structure.
Notto belabor the issue, but the real point I was making by pointing out that it is all relative was not that people should be free to post whatever they want whenever they want, but that there are MODERATORS who enforce the rules. Neither you nor I are moderators and if we try to impose our interpretation of the forum's posting guidelines on other people, we are certain to experience some backlash from those people towards who we yell "foul!"
If you ever feel like someone is flaming or off topic, you should do what I do anduse that little "report post to moderators" function, rather than telling the person to knock it off or to "get back on track."Doing the former is a very effective way to control outbreaks and to keep posts on topic, while doing the latter makes you look like a bully.
I suspect that's why a lot of people were angry with you: they didn't like you telling them what they should and shouldn't do like you somehow had any say over the matter.
Combine that fact with the discounting of emotions that usuallygoes hand-in-hand with commands to "stop flaming" and to "stay on task" and you've got a recipe for disaster.
Anyway, I think you've probably had plenty of time to reflect on allthis, so I'll drop it now. Good luck to you.
Message Edited by Animi on 04-20-2005 03:26 PM
Yeah, your point was much better made there, and given the time that I have had to reflect, I agree. It's just that sometimes when there is a good thread going up, I guess I try to salvage it first, because I just think that if I report, the whole ball of wax will get deleted. Anyway, you've made a good point there, and the advice is well-taken.
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