Armorsmith Archive

Thread: Ranger needs a pricing poll

Fred_Skinner
Fri Feb 20, 2004 11:38 am
#1



I have been working on this formulae. What I need from you folks is some tuning of the wieghting, and to see if I'm even close...


form: Fn = (T1*w1 + T2*w2 + ... Tn*wn)/(wsum*1000)*(Limit - b) + b

where Tn is the resource variable, w1 is the wieght number, wsum is the total of all wieghts and Limit is the price of a perfect resource (all 1000). This is a price cap I use to keep the market "sane".


There is an additionalvariable I put in, b, that adds control of how steep the sloping of the formulae works. Assume for now that his is zero, as I have not needed to factor that in yet. Using the threshold minimum price will overide the formulae of course at the lower end, but b can be used to get there more quickly for poorer resources.


Using this can easily put in a spreadsheet, an additinal switch where

Fn' = Fn:minimum(Fn > minimum)

Such that the "If" statement switched to the minimum price for any resource if the function goes below that.



For example, my current formulae

Meat: (OQ*10 + PE*4 + Fla*2 + DR*1)/(18*1000)*(20)

Hide/Bone: (OQ*10 + SR*6 + Mal*2 + UT*1 + DR*1)/(20*1000)*(20)


Units are of course Credits per unit resource. All numbers rounded normally.


Now as you can see, I have wieghting as follows:

Meat: 10OQ, 4PE, 2Fla, 1DR

Hide/Bone:10OQ, 6SR, 2Mal, 1UT, 1DR


Would these wieghts work or should I tune them a bit?

Message Edited by Fred_Skinner on 02-23-2004 01:54 PM



Frederick Skinner
Antarian Ranger, Ranger(0030), Master Rifleman, CH(4214)
Ranger is not a profession. It's a lifestyle.


Fred_Skinner
Fri Feb 20, 2004 11:39 am
#2





I have been working on this formulae. What I need from you folks is some tuning of the wieghting, and to see if I'm even close...


form: Fn = (T1*w1 + T2*w2 + ... Tn*wn)/(wsum*1000)*(Limit - b) + b

where Tn is the resource variable, wn is the wieght number, wsum is the total of all wieghts and Limit is the price of a perfect resource (all 1000). This is a price cap I use to keep the market "sane".


There is an additionalvariable I put in, b, that adds control of how steep the sloping of the formulae works. Assume for now that his is zero, as I have not needed to factor that in yet. Using the threshold minimum price will overide the formulae of course at the lower end, but b can be used to get there more quickly for poorer resources.


Using this can easily put in a spreadsheet, an additinal switch where

Fn' = Fn:minimum(Fn > minimum)

Such that the "If" statement switched to the minimum price for any resource if the function goes below that.



For example, my current formulae

Meat: (OQ*10 + PE*4 + Fla*2 + DR*1)/(18*1000)*(20)

Hide/Bone: (OQ*10 + SR*6 + Mal*2 + UT*1 + DR*1)/(20*1000)*(20)


Units are of course Credits per unit resource. All numbers rounded normally.


Now as you can see, I have wieghting as follows:

Meat: 10OQ, 4PE, 2Fla, 1DR

Hide/Bone:10OQ, 6SR, 2Mal, 1UT, 1DR


Would these wieghts work or should I tune them a bit?

Message Edited by Fred_Skinner on 02-23-2004 01:52 PM



Frederick Skinner
Antarian Ranger, Ranger(0030), Master Rifleman, CH(4214)
Ranger is not a profession. It's a lifestyle.


PostingAsIntended
Fri Feb 20, 2004 2:44 pm
#3

What I do is adjust based on the customer. If it is Herbavor meat, for example, then Docs are going to be primary target. They use it for medical componants and they are only interested in OQ and PE. FL is useless, so I wouldn't weigh that in.


Use the schematic weights. In this case, 33% PE and 66% OQ. Your 'price mod' for a piece of 500 OQ, 600 PE Herbavor would be:


(500 * .66) + (600 * .33) = 528.


You would sell that resource for 5.28 cr/unit * your server modifier (based on age of server, population, etc..)
Vrond
Sat Feb 21, 2004 7:52 am
#4

Most of these number go out the window when someone send me a tell that goes something like "I need 100K units of avian meat from Lok and will pay you 30 cpu" For the most part that is how i made my money as a ranger some one bid for may services.



Vrond Novawolf
Get onboard the Falcon kid this game is gonna blow
meschuster
Sat Feb 21, 2004 12:59 pm
#5

Math confuses me



Gondolin-Tarquinas
Genjin Hatsumi-Chimaera-Europe
Old-man Potts-Radiant
Ybagi
Sat Feb 21, 2004 7:49 pm
#6


Resources have different values to different professions; an artisan would not be looking at same stats as a Doctor.


Harvested organics used by artisans include: bone, hide, wooly hide, meat, herb meat, and milk


Artisan specific stats to look for,


most food requires PE66% and OQ33% so it would be meat we are looking for here (I think food is selling anywhere between 10-30 cpu now bear this in mind when setting your price)


Bone armour OQ50% and SR50% for bone and hide (be aware the markup on bone armour is very low, I think it sells for around 6cpu even for the best stuff so an artisan won't be paying too much for this stuff)


You might want to work into your formula deductions for when a stat drops below a certain threshold; hide with 6OQ and 1000 on everything else probably won't be worth squat to very many people.


Named resources are exponentially more valuable than general meat, bone and hide


Bone is generally not worth the same as hide and should probably not be valued on the same scale.


I don't think Maliability is having much effect on finished goods so it is not an important stat currently


Not sure if any organic recipies call for UT


Does hide and bone even have DR? I'm not sure.


Hope that helps


Message Edited by Ybagi on 02-22-2004 08:24 AM



Yv
Undead Warrior
Alchemist
Malganis Server
World of Warcraft
Puck_Starfire
Sat Feb 21, 2004 10:29 pm
#7

Hmmm, kinda difficult Fred.


But, I haven't really been able to come up with a Ranger formula yet myself. I usually go with:


0-500(whatever stat you're using) = 3-8cpu


501-800 = 4-9cpu


801-950 = 5-10 cpu


951-1000 = 10-1000cpu


Of course demand affects my price too. Finding a Ranger formula is a little tougher because you have so many variables that affect stuff like meds more. Much harder than Droids and Vehicles grrrr.



Fred_Skinner
Sat Feb 21, 2004 10:39 pm
#8


What I was trying to do is a general market value, instead of a targeted value. Less professions caring about FL for example would cause that to wieght it less. I'm trying to consolidate a pricing that all can be comfortable with. Sometimes you get guys that try to corner the market on resources to their competitors will get the short end. This can be minimized if I can get an established formulae that make sense.


Thanks all, btw, for your input.


Message Edited by Fred_Skinner on 02-22-2004 12:39 AM



Frederick Skinner
Antarian Ranger, Ranger(0030), Master Rifleman, CH(4214)
Ranger is not a profession. It's a lifestyle.


Fred_Skinner
Sat Feb 21, 2004 10:45 pm
#9






Ybagi wrote:

...snip...


You might want to work into your formula deductions for when a stat drops below a certain threshold; hide with 6OQ and 1000 on everything else probably won't be worth squat to very many people.


...snip...





ya, that kind of thing would get a 7-9 cpu output, at least the wieghting takes that into account somewhat. The b factor is what I added to the one formula and the switch formula would hold up the rest, so the formulae as a set would do this. Could anyone that has such a resource see how this truely affects their product? perhaps settings of b=-2 or such would be in order.




Frederick Skinner
Antarian Ranger, Ranger(0030), Master Rifleman, CH(4214)
Ranger is not a profession. It's a lifestyle.


Naxet
Sun Feb 22, 2004 8:30 am
#10

From a buyers perspective:



(3cpu)(Df)=price willing to pay


Where Df = Desperation factor





Master Weaponsmith, Master Artisan, Master Pistoleer - Ahazi

Master Rifleman, Master Creature Handler - Tempest
Ackeko
Tue Feb 24, 2004 10:46 pm
#11

The formula (more like a flow chart) I use for ranger goods where....


St = Final Stack Size


Oq = Overall quality


U = Units per hour


Mp = Average destroy mission payout from novice to master elite/hybrid ungrouped (calced at 5000) * 2.5 (average missions per hour) = 12,500cr


An = switch for 'targeted/not targeted' resource (targeted denotes a large demand base, or, wanted by many people in game. ie. herbivore meat) where A1 = targeted, A2 = not targeted


Bn = Planet specific switch (coincides with A) where B1 = planet specific, B2 = not planet specific



If A2...


Oq/1000 --- (Min5 cpu)


If A1+B2


(Mp / U) * (St/2000) --- (Assumes stacks larger than 2k - min cpu of 10)


If A1+B1


(Mp / U) * (St/1000) *1.5 --- (Assumes stacks larger than 2k - min cpu of 15)



For myself, if any resource is client requested (bob tells you: Can you collect 20k of the current Tatooine Leathery hide?) do the formula for A1+B1 and add 10cpu. (minimum of 20cpu) -- In case you havent guessed, I don't like collecting vast amounts of resources for someone else.



Heres a breakdown I did for the chefs:

http://forums.station.sony.com/swg/board/message?board.id=chef&message.id=27089#M27089


which explains why it is not cost effective to harvest specific resources for someone.



Before you blast me and say I'm ruining the economy, think of this...


/mount soapbox

You have 10 lots. Lets say you buy 4 BER 10 harvesters. You drop on a 50% concentration... you collect 48k of resources a day. Not in my wildest dreams could I EVER hope to collect that must of any creature resource in a day. Those resources sell for about 3cpu. They require minimal effort to obtain and no real skill, or expendature of skill points. I need to spend hour upon hour harvesting creatures. I also need to expend a minimum of 77 sp (master scout) to get half of what's available on a creature (that doesn't take into account all of the skill points I had to invest to be able to kill the thing in the first place). So my minimums are not out of line. The fact is, if you don't have the skill/desire to get the resources yourself, you probably have more than enough money to pay me what I ask for them.


Rangers are selling themselves short. Think about it this way... A composite chest plate sells for ____ (a 60%+on lowca is about 50k if I remember right) it takes exactly 522 resources to make it. I may be mis-informed, and there may be additional resources for more layers... so lets say 2k of resources. (4x my number) That amounts to 25cpu.



Rangers should stop thining of themselves as a 'support' class and more of a 'crafting' class and charge accordingly. Meat/hide/bone cannot be collected in the vast numbers that other resources can. Therefore, we should not sell ourselves short and sell these resources for the same prices that the 'dug' resources do.


/dismount soapbox



- I support Nerfing SWG! - You can support it too! Click Here!
Fred_Skinner
Thu Feb 26, 2004 12:53 pm
#12

Ok, I had an answer to this and wasted 45 minutes writing the reply and the dumb-dumb boards ate it. Some kind of STOOOOPID timout is being applied when you post and it would seem that you have to post in a certain amount of time.... let me see if I can remember it all (and write it in notepad first). Thanks a lot Lithium...






Frederick Skinner
Antarian Ranger, Ranger(0030), Master Rifleman, CH(4214)
Ranger is not a profession. It's a lifestyle.


JasonK
Fri Feb 27, 2004 1:11 am
#13

Way to complicated for a game.




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Blah, blah, blah.
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