Armorsmith Archive
Thread: Sorry, wrong forum
Some friends and I were discussing the state of development of other MMO's, how well we thought the current ones were doing, and which we were likely to stick with in the future. This lead me to reply about what I would like to see out of an MMORPG. The thing that most of them lack, my percieved notion of that spark that would elevate the genre. I am no stranger to MMO's, and I consider myself a fairly avid gamer. My thoughts below aren't completely organized, but I think you will understand the gist of what I am getting at:
I think it boils down to complexity of the system really.
They wrestle with the "casual gamer" aspect of games, trying to make subsystems like crafting and fighting deep enough to be interesting without breaking the back of someone who doesn't have time to try out every combination. In practice, this is fine, except for the fact that eventually any system will be dismantled, analyzed, and optimized by the community and eventually disseminated into an effeciency method for any particular subsystem.
The problem is that the systems are not complex enough. The solution is not to make them so complex that they cannot be mastered or show achievement, but rather to make the system broad enough with enough random elements to mimic real research and accomplishment goals. I think they did this somewhat with SWG, like with the resources for items and crafting. However, the system isn't broad enough, and the community has already figured out how to make the system effecient. This takes one obstacle of accomplishment out of the way of the player, and peels back one layer of "meat" so to speak that the game has to offer. Do this with enough subsystems, and the game lacks challenge.
This is where player impact and consequence has to come into play. When the subsystems have been streamlined, due to the fact that the complexity is limited by real resources like computer/database limits and by "casual gamer" variable, then you need something for the player to APPLY their knowledge to, an overall system that challenges them that cannot be streamlined but still offers sense of accomplishment. Instead of a system that changes the world as players interact with it, the designers opt out to the age old standby: harder creatures, harder quests.
Still though, this is a subsystem. Combat has been streamlined already, and quests will be too once the internet allows for the information on how to solve them to be spread. So what is left? The challenge has to be in getting players to cooperate in attaining goals that would otherwise be unobtainable without it. Some would cry that ideology nerfs the solo player's fun. I disagree. THEIR fun lies in accomplishments of the subsystems. The overall system however, should rely on the participation of multiple people. That is how large tasks are accomplished in real life, so why would it be any different in game?
This leads me to my point. The designers need to stop catering to one thing or another, and present true and dynamic challenge to the players in a system that creates change in the world that can only be accomplished by cooperation. This would give each player a sense of purpose, and identity, and an impact in the world they exist in. SWG did this to a point with GCW and factions, unfortunately they stopped short of realizing its full potential. There are no active random factors in the game. The Imperials do static quests, but do not, for instance, invade and take over towns to search for covert rebels, or lay waste to player buildings, etc.
These things, while perhaps not great ideas, are what MMO's need to put the juice back in games. There needs to be active, random and dynamic participation of the game designers to stimulate the world. Like in D&D, the DM is responsible for providing challenge as a character matures and increases in influence and power, so must MMO's. So what is the resource that is missing from the equation? Why can't the devs make this magic happen?
Because the resource they need is people. There need to be elements in the game that cannot be streamlined, predicted, and that impact the players directly. You cannot tell a good story without antagonists, and the computer cannot provide that. but the designers are busy fixing the game, adding new art, etc, so they cannot take that role. Nor can a company afford to pay people to simply play a game all day (not with the current tolerance for subscription prices anyway), so the resource would have to come from the player base itself.
The players should be able to use that overall system to accomplish goals that are long standing and that conflict with another groups goals. SWG has the system, but not the goals. Here is where it, and many other games, fail in this overall achievement. They are afraid of designing a system that allows one player too much power, or too much influence over other players, or for the game to come to a state of imbalance. The goal, for example like the imperials raiding a town, doesn't have to be so drastic that it does this though. I think it is just lazy design or imagination that keeps devs from putting out a system that would allow for conflict with real resolution and consequences.
Take the town of Mos Eisley. In the movie, it was full of storm troopers looking for Luke. Let us say that in game, perhaps they were there to simply claim the areas resources for a while. The players in the surrounding 2000 m area would lose all their ability to gain resources, until the Imperials left. The imperials on the other hand, have to present enough of a force to make sure the drain happens.
Ok, so what do we have here?
We have a conflict. The protagonists of the story are the townspeople and rebels. The antagonists are the Imperials. The goals? The imperials drain resources and the rebels must try to keep them from doing so by either driving them out of town, or through political means. The townspeople could help, if they wanted, but would be subject to the temporary PvP flag or they could be part of the political talk.
The goods the imperials drain from the area wouldn't all go to the player imperials, only a portion of that as a reward for doing what the imperials DO! Before hand, perhaps the Player Imerials had to be able to construct some sort of forward post to operate out of, consuming resources and stimulating action by the players to interact with the subsystems. The motivation for this could come from the environment of Imperial bases, dev played NPC's, etc.
The rebels of course, would get the reward of saving the town from being diminished of resources. Perhaps even acquiring Imperial only technology, or information. The player imperials would get this as a mission for their faction, the rebels would be alerted to it by PLAYER interaction only! This stimulates people to ACT on their environment. This gives a role to everyone!
Do you see what I am saying here? This to me gives an opportunity for someone to be sitting in the cantina and say "yea, remember when the imperials came and took over Mos Eisley? Shut down all the trade, claimed resources and put criminals in jail. Couldn't find one drop of spice! yea, and those rebels, they put up a fight alright, but in the end, it was that Calamarian senator who bribed the Imperial big wig to lay off. I tell you what, next time those shell heads come into my town, i am going to join up with the rebels. This has to stop!"
That could be what a player says in game. And then it goes from there. Maybe he was talking to an imperial spy, who goes back and says 'hey next time we get a Mos Eisley mission, it won't be so easy next time, those Tatooine natives are really upset!" And there could be rebel missions too! Destroy Imperial outposts that allow the Imps to commit raids like the one above, or something like that.
What the above provides:
-- Goals for both sides, imperial and rebel.
-- A random introduction of motivation, either by dev played NPC or by a decently designed mission system that TRACKS what has been done and could be done for both sides.
-- Rewards for both sides.
-- Role for everyone: townspeople can join, stand aside, or try other tactics to influence the outcome. Rebels and Imperials of course would have predefined roles, but not predefined methods exactly as to how to accomplish their goals.
-- Consequences: The townspeople will lose out on trade, resource, and maybe even be forced to move if the imperials stay for too long. The rebels stand to lose the faith of the people who safeguard them and aid them if they do not act, not to mention making their job that much harder. The Imperials would have to maintain their prescence, thus allowing them only so much of this type of activity at a time, and if they fail they lose information, weapons, or what have you.
-- Impact: Give the system limits. Find the balance so that Imperials or Rebels don't outnumber one or the other. Give the players the option, but also make them realize that just like in real systems, sometimes certain things cannot be achieved. I bring this up to highlight the problem of people wanting to join a faction that may be locked out. It could be based on several factors, like resources needed to maintain X number of people in your faction, which could limit membership, and help balance the sides. It also allows for people to join later when the resources allow and/or defect. This would force both sides to choose between active conflict or bolstering their position by acquiring resources, and would give a natural balance to the conflict so you didn't see the system overrun by exploitation.
All this has a lot of open ended ideas I don't have time to go into right now, like say perhaps the Hutt faction is impacted by the above, and sends players to aid one side or the other. Perhaps those who were neutral would chose a side after an incident like that, either to fight against one or the other, or to benefit.
Anyway, that is my concept of what I am trying to talk about. That is a system that has flux, impact, and accomplishment. That is what I want to see in an MMORPG.
Thanks for reading. I welcome any comment here, and look forward to your replies.
Message Edited by Physion on 03-23-2004 12:02 PM
Message Edited by Physion on 03-23-2004 12:03 PM