Armorsmith Archive
Thread: opinions on layering....
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Stoehovve
Fri Oct 14, 2005 6:49 am
#1
mmnanszite wrote:
so ive heard mixed reviews from many AS on my server on how they feel about layering...
the thing that i dont quite understand... and the thing they disagree on is what layering is "best", per say.
Layering is really designed to customize armour for a specific role, for example. Recon armour has a decent cap at 6k or 7k on energy with out layers. But, add in energy layers and you can reach 8k+, and in primus layers and I think it caps at 7.5k, or something like that.
The theory is that the more energy resistance, the better the armour is against energy and LS attacks (if it works...), thus improving your odds against those types of opponents.
pykescylla
Fri Oct 14, 2005 7:15 am
#2
Knowing what layers to use is easy--if you know what the other guy is going to shoot you with!
The key with layers is that they raise one stat at the expense of others, typically by 1000 points or more. So people add energy layers to recon armor for folks who will face jedi (or perhaps for Corvette runs or the DWB, I don't really know). Kinetic layers aren't as popular, but they would be especially beneficial for PvE types who like to stand toe to toe with critters and NPCs.
The downside is that kinetic layers lower your armor's energy resistance, and energy layers lower the kinetic protection. As an added bonus, the protection you lose is greater than the protection you gain. So it is not +100, -100. It's +100, -101. Measure the the 3.5 percentage points of damage reduction you get raising a stat from 7000 to 8000 against the 7.5 points you lose dropping the opposing stat from 5000 to 4000.
Primus layers raise both kinetic AND energy protection but only by a maximum of 600 to each stat. That equates to a very small gain in protection that comes at great expense. Primus layers lower protection from elemental damage, but since this is a minor concern compared to the main damage done by most all weapons, people are happy to live with it.
So the most popular layered builds are energy-layered recon and primus-layered anything. Kinetic layered assault would be great for melee types hunting krayts and the like but no melee profession gets the assualt certification. Eenrgy-layed composite is also popular for bounty hunters who just have to hunt jedi in their shiny new BH armor, but you end up with a product that is essentially the same as unlayered battle armor by raising the low energy protection of assault and lowering its kinetic protection. And it costs an arm and a leg.
But I'm not sure ANY smith has ever said "you should use secundus layers." There is little use or demand for secundus, tertius, or any of the elemental layers.
The key with layers is that they raise one stat at the expense of others, typically by 1000 points or more. So people add energy layers to recon armor for folks who will face jedi (or perhaps for Corvette runs or the DWB, I don't really know). Kinetic layers aren't as popular, but they would be especially beneficial for PvE types who like to stand toe to toe with critters and NPCs.
The downside is that kinetic layers lower your armor's energy resistance, and energy layers lower the kinetic protection. As an added bonus, the protection you lose is greater than the protection you gain. So it is not +100, -100. It's +100, -101. Measure the the 3.5 percentage points of damage reduction you get raising a stat from 7000 to 8000 against the 7.5 points you lose dropping the opposing stat from 5000 to 4000.
Primus layers raise both kinetic AND energy protection but only by a maximum of 600 to each stat. That equates to a very small gain in protection that comes at great expense. Primus layers lower protection from elemental damage, but since this is a minor concern compared to the main damage done by most all weapons, people are happy to live with it.
So the most popular layered builds are energy-layered recon and primus-layered anything. Kinetic layered assault would be great for melee types hunting krayts and the like but no melee profession gets the assualt certification. Eenrgy-layed composite is also popular for bounty hunters who just have to hunt jedi in their shiny new BH armor, but you end up with a product that is essentially the same as unlayered battle armor by raising the low energy protection of assault and lowering its kinetic protection. And it costs an arm and a leg.
But I'm not sure ANY smith has ever said "you should use secundus layers." There is little use or demand for secundus, tertius, or any of the elemental layers.
Stoehovve
Fri Oct 14, 2005 8:27 am
#3
Agreed, I've never used anything other then primus and energy layers as of yet.
kensaii
Fri Oct 14, 2005 8:36 am
#4
mmnanszite wrote:
so ive heard mixed reviews from many AS on my server on how they feel about layering...
the thing that i dont quite understand... and the thing they disagree on is what layering is "best", per say.
I guess what im saying is... Ive heard some MAS say "there is no point in using specific layers (EL, KL... etc)... you should just use primus layers to adjust those.... or use secondus layers instead of focusing on heat/cold" (i think thats the right combo). something about how it just makes armor worse to do that.
the others disagree and are all for specific layering.
Advise is always good, but too much advise sometimes can just be plain confusing. I've only started armoursmith about 1.5mth back and I've only started making layers now. I understood the purpose of layers but I didn't understand the actually workings of them until I started creating them in the last week or so. A fellow armoursmith gave me the best advise when I wanted to create some health enhanced suits she said "Buy some cheap resouces and +6krayt health scales and practise creating with those." Still haven't manage to practise with health enhance stuff yet but I manage to take that advise with layers.
To me armour customization is about giving what the the customer wants especially as a starting AS because of the following reasons1. Builds rapport between you and potential regular customers and 2. Build your reputation as an AS. I'm not saying don't listen to other AS (because they doknow what they are talking about)but I would take into account what the customer wants more, after all they are going to be wearing the armour.
mmnanszite
Fri Oct 14, 2005 12:04 pm
#6
so ive heard mixed reviews from many AS on my server on how they feel about layering...
the thing that i dont quite understand... and the thing they disagree on is what layering is "best", per say.
I guess what im saying is... Ive heard some MAS say "there is no point in using specific layers (EL, KL... etc)... you should just use primus layers to adjust those.... or use secondus layers instead of focusing on heat/cold" (i think thats the right combo). something about how it just makes armor worse to do that.
the others disagree and are all for specific layering.
see my thing is... i still dont quite understand how layers work... and how you decide which ones/how many you put in?
if you guys could take the time to give me your opinions or what you think works (is it better to just use 4 primus layers, or secondus... etc) or better to use 4 specific layers id greatly appreciate it.
and if anyone wants to be kind enough to try to explain to me in simple terms how layers effect the armor specifically... is it like +100 to energy resist and -100 to kinetic for EVERY energy layer you add? and what are the numbers/purpose of the primus, secondus, teritas layers...
haha im so lost. thanks guys.
JediSpam
Fri Oct 14, 2005 6:38 pm
#7
pykescylla wrote:
Knowing what layers to use is easy--if you know what the other guy is going to shoot you with!
The key with layers is that they raise one stat at the expense of others, typically by 1000 points or more. So people add energy layers to recon armor for folks who will face jedi (or perhaps for Corvette runs or the DWB, I don't really know). Kinetic layers aren't as popular, but they would be especially beneficial for PvE types who like to stand toe to toe with critters and NPCs.
The downside is that kinetic layers lower your armor's energy resistance, and energy layers lower the kinetic protection. As an added bonus, the protection you lose is greater than the protection you gain. So it is not +100, -100. It's +100, -101. Measure the the 3.5 percentage points of damage reduction you get raising a stat from 7000 to 8000 against the 7.5 points you lose dropping the opposing stat from 5000 to 4000.
Primus layers raise both kinetic AND energy protection but only by a maximum of 600 to each stat. That equates to a very small gain in protection that comes at great expense. Primus layers lower protection from elemental damage, but since this is a minor concern compared to the main damage done by most all weapons, people are happy to live with it.
So the most popular layered builds are energy-layered recon and primus-layered anything. Kinetic layered assault would be great for melee types hunting krayts and the like but no melee profession gets the assualt certification. Eenrgy-layed composite is also popular for bounty hunters who just have to hunt jedi in their shiny new BH armor, but you end up with a product that is essentially the same as unlayered battle armor by raising the low energy protection of assault and lowering its kinetic protection. And it costs an arm and a leg.
But I'm not sure ANY smith has ever said "you should use secundus layers." There is little use or demand for secundus, tertius, or any of the elemental layers.
Great post, Pyke.
As Pyke stated, just ask what your customers are fighting.
I started making kinetic layeredtwo days ago (good neutronium spawned) and I've already had 3 suits ordered. You'd be surprised at the number of people who think energy layered is the best all-around armor.
The people who had the kinetic stuff made were all krayt hunters with assault certs and they loved it.
BTW, my kinetic layers are at+1182...
However, the majority of the people out there want energy.
I'm estimating my sales ratioto be aroundenergy10 : primus4 : kinetic 1 : all others 0.
Perhaps the ToOW might introduce heat damage, but who knows...
For now, Ene, Kin, and Pri are the only 3 layers you should think about.
Quizz
Fri Oct 14, 2005 7:21 pm
#8
my energy layered recon, battle, assult far exceeds primus. Energy is all that matters when it comes to pvp and bounty hunters. Sure, there is the odd guy running around with a kinetic dmg weapon, but not nearly as many guys with energy weapons
pykescylla
Fri Oct 14, 2005 7:54 pm
#10
Quizz wrote:
my energy layered recon, battle, assult far exceeds primus. Energy is all that matters when it comes to pvp and bounty hunters. Sure, there is the odd guy running around with a kinetic dmg weapon, but not nearly as many guys with energy weapons
Energy also seems to be about all that matters with NPCs, too, if you engage them from range. In my limited experience I've never seen one pull and FWG or a slug thrower (could happen, the rebels are running around in RIS). It often seems to be an energy carbine.
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