Armorsmith Archive
Thread: Who else thinks the new Complexity thing is total BS
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Baciacca
Sun Oct 24, 2004 10:41 pm
#1
It's late so I won't go into this too much, but who else thinks that this new complexity crap is BS? As if it didn't take long enough for armor to cook in the factories (and let's not even get into PSGs), not it takes even longer if we expirement more. This is driving me insane. From what I have read, players believe this was an attempt by SOE to hurt the big-time crafters, but I don't see how this does anything but hurt everybody. Big-time crafters are just going to get more factories so that they can make their stuff in the same amount of time. It's the little guys who will get hurt the most.
royalewitcheez
Sun Oct 24, 2004 10:49 pm
#2
Getting more factories, yup. That's what I'm gonna do.
And ugh... I hadn't even thought about PSGs. I bet you're looking at about two weeks of factory time if try to do it all in one factory.
I do experiment differently now, though. I'll do two lines at one time as opposed to experimenting one line at a time.
And ugh... I hadn't even thought about PSGs. I bet you're looking at about two weeks of factory time if try to do it all in one factory.
I do experiment differently now, though. I'll do two lines at one time as opposed to experimenting one line at a time.
bradimere
Mon Oct 25, 2004 8:11 pm
#3
well, think of it this way. Try crafting grinding for jedi now 
Baciacca
Tue Oct 26, 2004 3:36 pm
#4
I'm doing it for the FS crafting branches (not jedi). It's not that bad.
Ox-
Wed Oct 27, 2004 2:53 pm
#5
I'm not liking the new factory times because my layers now take forever, but I don't see how it really affects PSG's. Subcomponent quality has no impact, so just don't experiment on them and the factory time will be unchanged from before.
Generally PSG's are a bit of a pain to make, but no worse than composite really (at least for me). I have to make 15 factory runs for composite (9 pieces, 3 layers, 1 segment, 1 synth cloth, 1 rfp) and only 7 factory runs for a PSG (4 armor subcomponents, 2 artisan subcomponents, 1 psg). 13 of those composite runs are greatly affected by the new complexity times compared to only 1 of the psg runs.
Generally PSG's are a bit of a pain to make, but no worse than composite really (at least for me). I have to make 15 factory runs for composite (9 pieces, 3 layers, 1 segment, 1 synth cloth, 1 rfp) and only 7 factory runs for a PSG (4 armor subcomponents, 2 artisan subcomponents, 1 psg). 13 of those composite runs are greatly affected by the new complexity times compared to only 1 of the psg runs.
Unilyte
Thu Oct 28, 2004 6:48 am
#6
is this actually new, or something that was bugged and was just finally fixed?
Andymantium
Thu Oct 28, 2004 7:25 am
#7
Something that never worked, which they finally decided to "fix".
Unilyte wrote:
is this actually new, or something that was bugged and was just finally fixed?
Tirgwystraff
Thu Oct 28, 2004 7:57 am
#8
Unilyte wrote:
is this actually new, or something that was bugged and was just finally fixed?
It was bugged, and they finally fixed. Complexity has always mattered in handcrafting, now they penalized factory people for experimenting too.
Unilyte
Thu Oct 28, 2004 11:04 am
#9
that is kinda my point is that the factories were bugged to, why would a two factory running the same sym just one at 25 complex item finish the same time running a 5 complex?
Shouldn't the one running the 25 take longer to run then the 5?
I think they just finally caught that they missed taking complex into account when doing the computions for the time a factory run will take, and now they have fix the coding
Baciacca
Fri Oct 29, 2004 11:39 am
#10
The problem is that now the complexity increases as you expirement. Items already had higher base complexities based on how intensive the schematic was. Bigger items took longer to cook in the factories. Now the complexity goes up as you expirement. Basically it is penalizing players for expirementing. This is something that has never been active in live play of this game. I figured they threw it out in Beta because of how ridiculous of a concept it is. For some reason, they want to cut down our levels of production or screw us over on lots even more than we already were.
DiesmiaShiyka
Fri Oct 29, 2004 1:02 pm
#11
I'm not particularly thrilled with the increased time, but I disagree that it doesn't make sense. Think of it this way: how time does experimenting take while working on the schematic. Not much time in an absolute sense, but relative to the actual crafting? It *does* take some amonut of time longer. Since a factory's purpose is to replicate your effort via the schematic, then it makes sense that the factory takes longer as well. Another example: I have two bicycles. One is a kids bike. The other one I have spent lots of time improving the design, I've increased it construction complexity (e.g., I've added hand brakes, gears, etc.) until I basically have a 12 speed. Now, I take both designs to the same factory to produce that item. Are you telling me that since they are both basically bicycles that they should take the same amount of time to manufacture?
Now, that said, I do think that fixing this a year into the game is a bit unfortunate, but apparently, it was something that was intended to be fixed. I, too, am a small shop and yes, the increased factory time hurts me a bit. However, we can't pick and choose what we want fixed. If we want a bug fixed that will benefit us, it's illogical to ignore a bug because we benefit from it's existence.
Again, let me stress this: I am not a fan of the increased time, nor am I happy it's there. I just accept that this is as much a part of the game development process as the Devs fixing my bike so it stores properly.
Just my two cents and not intended to criticize anyone or their opinion.
Now, that said, I do think that fixing this a year into the game is a bit unfortunate, but apparently, it was something that was intended to be fixed. I, too, am a small shop and yes, the increased factory time hurts me a bit. However, we can't pick and choose what we want fixed. If we want a bug fixed that will benefit us, it's illogical to ignore a bug because we benefit from it's existence.
Again, let me stress this: I am not a fan of the increased time, nor am I happy it's there. I just accept that this is as much a part of the game development process as the Devs fixing my bike so it stores properly.
Just my two cents and not intended to criticize anyone or their opinion.
Tirgwystraff
Fri Oct 29, 2004 2:46 pm
#12
Baciacca wrote:
This is something that has never been active in live play of this game. I figured they threw it out in Beta because of how ridiculous of a concept it is. For some reason, they want to cut down our levels of production or screw us over on lots even more than we already were.
Wrong. I pointed it out earlier, handcrafting ALWAYS had the longer time for experimenting. All they did was make factories reflect the same.
Baciacca
Fri Oct 29, 2004 2:53 pm
#13
Or you're wrong, as I'm referring to the fact that complexity never affected factory time and now it does. The complexityvalue never has and still does not even register on the attributes of a schematic, or at least not for AS schematics. Also, the effect that complexity has on hand crafting is minimal compared to the effect it now has on factory time.
Tirgwystraff wrote:
Baciacca wrote:
This is something that has never been active in live play of this game. I figured they threw it out in Beta because of how ridiculous of a concept it is. For some reason, they want to cut down our levels of production or screw us over on lots even more than we already were.
Wrong. I pointed it out earlier, handcrafting ALWAYS had the longer time for experimenting. All they did was make factories reflect the same.
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