Armorsmith Archive
Thread: The math not adding up!!! anyone else haveing these problems?
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JZeus-Sarono
Thu Apr 28, 2005 7:45 pm
#1
First off Im testing differant combos and noticed one thing on the Primus layer, with it being 50/50 oq/sr my resources are...
(useing the balance stats, oq+SR/2 or 50% each)
Vintrium extrusive ore 900
Perovskitic alum 919
Gravatonic FP 856
Polymere 955
neut steel 843
It "Should" be capped at 89.46% with these resources but every time, and I have made about 20of these layers just testing is ending up at 70% capped out with 4 points left over (which sickens me) and the stats are hitting +34/34 on kinetic/energy -35 to all elemintal
This math is not adding up and its quite anoyin knowing it Should" be better then this 
Anyone else notice this?
I have not tested kinetic layers thanks to the new ore needed...it like crism, the best of the best to spawn on intrepid is 746 oq/431 SR (588 stat) thanks alot devs for limiting us so much...
thanks alot devs for limiting us so much...
TitanTen
Fri Apr 29, 2005 1:02 am
#2
probably because most of us cant even make those layers..... stupid moronic resources
turtleblues
Fri Apr 29, 2005 1:07 am
#3
yes i noticed it as well, im not a math wiz and a kill abrain cell doing percents but hard cap seems to be 70% on all steps , the layers, the segs,the cores AND the final combine.
darevsool
Fri Apr 29, 2005 1:15 am
#4
I'm getting +40 / -41 on the primus layers. I lucked out and have a LOT of the ore from my early Architect days
Neut Steel = 834
Polymer = 987
Grav Fiber = 733
Vint Ext Ore = 885
Pero Alum = 873
As with you, values are oq/sr added together then split in half...even the polymer (975oq 1000sr)
Experimentation capped at 82% for me.
Message Edited by darevsool on 04-29-2005 04:23 AM
Keeper32
Fri Apr 29, 2005 1:58 am
#5
That's not a bug. I believe that Blix commented that the primus layers were too powerfull, so he halfed their effectiveness.
Nichrf36
Fri Apr 29, 2005 4:14 am
#6
JZeus-Sarono wrote:
First off Im testing differant combos and noticed one thing on the Primus layer, with it being 50/50 oq/sr my resources are...
(useing the balance stats, oq+SR/2 or 50% each)
Vintrium extrusive ore 900
Perovskitic alum 919
Gravatonic FP 856
Polymere 955
neut steel 843
It "Should" be capped at 89.46% with these resources but every time, and I have made about 20of these layers just testing is ending up at 70% capped out with 4 points left over (which sickens me) and the stats are hitting +34/34 on kinetic/energy -35 to all elemintal
This math is not adding up and its quite anoyin knowing it Should" be better then this
Anyone else notice this?
I have not tested kinetic layers thanks to the new ore needed...it like crism, the best of the best to spawn on intrepid is 746 oq/431 SR (588 stat)
I capped at about the 65-70 range as well and got similar stats. Mostly likely the calculations got skewed when they nerfed the primus layers.
JZeus-Sarono
Sat Apr 30, 2005 9:55 am
#8
Great so your telling me my uber resources can all be 700'ish oq and still get my 70%, thanks alot devs you really chap my hide 
Garnax
Sat Apr 30, 2005 10:33 am
#9
JZeus-Sarono wrote:
Great so your telling me my uber resources can all be 700'ish oq and still get my 70%, thanks alot devs you really chap my hide
No, this is an effect of the new resource weighing formula. Some of your previously good resources (probably the phrik alu) is now crappy.
Kelloch
Sat Apr 30, 2005 10:41 am
#10
Garnax wrote:
JZeus-Sarono wrote:
Great so your telling me my uber resources can all be 700'ish oq and still get my 70%, thanks alot devs you really chap my hide
No, this is an effect of the new resource weighing formula. Some of your previously good resources (probably the phrik alu) is now crappy.
Please explain how it can be crappy. I'm trying to figure all this out.
Sharkboy
Sat Apr 30, 2005 11:08 am
#11
Blixtev wrote:
Nice find, this was a change to crafting that was made back in Oct-Nov that didn't make it live until the rest of the code did. It seems to have been overlooked so I will give a brief outline.
Old Crafting Method:
Resources range from 0-1000, the closer you got the stats to 1000 the better the outcome of the item. The problemin this system was that many items use several different types of resources that could never approach 1000 in the stat called for in the schematic. For example the conductivity of iron is very poor.
Agun calls forgeneric metal(can have a high oq and cond), copper(generally has high cond and can have highoq) and a named iron(terrible cond max and can have a high oq) This gun will always suffer from that poor iron in itsimply because the cond range for thisiron is 50-120 for example. No matter how good the iron you can never craft a beyond a certain point as the iron gates it.
Why you may ask?
Well the old method just dumped all your resources into a virtual bucket, and based the stats on the sum total of the bucket.
New crafting Method:
The crafting scripts now look at the RANGE of every material for the slot it is going into. So if an iron that has a conductivity of 99 needs to go into the conductivityslot, the script looks up and sees that the max iron's Cond can be is 150. This means your iron is weighted as 99/150 instead of 99/1000. This means your iron is much more effective now.
With the tweaks made to the system we can now control the values of the slots in a way that makes sense, instead of the virtual bucket sum total method.
Sorry about not posting anything on this.
_Monroe_
Sat Apr 30, 2005 11:10 am
#12
Kelloch wrote:
Garnax wrote:
JZeus-Sarono wrote:
Great so your telling me my uber resources can all be 700'ish oq and still get my 70%, thanks alot devs you really chap my hide
No, this is an effect of the new resource weighing formula. Some of your previously good resources (probably the phrik alu) is now crappy.
Please explain how it can be crappy. I'm trying to figure all this out.
The old weighting system had every attribute based 1-1000. ((oq+sr)/2)/1000 The new system weights attributes based on a range. So for phrik say SR's range is 700-900. So an SR of 700 in the new system is like an SR of 1 in the old system and SR 900 in the new system is like SR 1000 in the old.
What does this mean? It means you can no longer look at a resource and tell how good it is. You have to know the ranges for each attribute and figure out its proper weight.
The resource slot in the crafting tool determines what gates are used. Something that calls for "metal" is going to have a much larger range (1-1000) than something that calls for Phrik.
A 1000OQ 700SR phrik is total crap compared to a 500OQ 900SR phrik when used in a phrik aluminum slot. A 1000OQ 700SR phrik is much better compared to a 500OQ 900SR phrik when used in a aluminum slot.
WittyNewt
Sat Apr 30, 2005 1:00 pm
#13
Lol, well while I understand this new crafting formula I fail to understand why on earth Blixtev would implement such a thing given his oft stated aim of making crafting more accessible and easier to understand to new players.
It is a lot more difficult to evaluate whether one named resource is better than another without refering to the resource stat caps and reaching for a calculator to plug the results into the new weighting formula. No more quick average calculations. Even better, SOE have never bothered to actually publish the caps and even now with this new change they have failed to do so and we have to reply on the excellent table from Lunariel that relys on swgcraft observed data.
Blixtev could have acheived exactly the same result and still retainedthe simple evaluation mechanism by simpling removing all resource caps for future resources. In fact he could have also written a simple script to make the correct change to all in game named resources to adjust their stats to this new uncapped regime and applied it at CU roll out.
As to peoples comments that this new current regime is better because it allows you, no matter what crafter profession you are., to get more experimentation and hence make better weapons, better armor etc etc I am sorry to burst your bubble but that is not going to happen.
The resource caps in the old system were there for a reason - namely to control the maximum stats possible on a finished crafted item.
This has now been replaced by a system of hard caps for all crafted stats, which many crafters even after only a few post CU days are rapidly running into.
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