Armorsmith Archive
Thread: Low Stun% worth anything?
Message Edited by Broog on 04-27-2004 10:13 AM
example:
AR1 Composite (Stun = Vuln), AR1 Weapon with 100 damage: 100 + 50% (because of vuln AR won't count so AR0 will be calcualted) = 150 actual damage
AR1 Composite (Stun = 10%), AR1 Weapon with 100 damage: 100 + 0% (AR1 against AR1) - 10% (stun protection) = 90 actual damage
AR1 Composite (Stun = 10%), AR0 Weapon with 100 damage: 100 - 50% (armor AR is 1 level higher than weapon) - 10% (stun protection) = 45 actual damage
that's how i understood it. please correct me if i am wrong!
Nerun1 wrote:
i would say yeah. theoretically, when stun is moved from Vulnerability to (e.g. 10%) Special protection, the Armor Rate should count against the damage.
example:
AR1 Composite (Stun = Vuln), AR1 Weapon with 100 damage: 100 + 50% (because of vuln AR won't count so AR0 will be calcualted) = 150 actual damage
AR1 Composite (Stun = 10%), AR1 Weapon with 100 damage: 100 + 0% (AR1 against AR1) - 10% (stun protection) = 90 actual damage
AR1 Composite (Stun = 10%), AR0 Weapon with 100 damage: 100 - 50% (armor AR is 1 level higher than weapon) - 10% (stun protection) = 45 actual damage
that's how i understood it. please correct me if i am wrong!
Seems right to me. Some guy had some 43% stun helms I think all 4 went over a million if I am correct just recently and there were tons of bids. The base on those helms was 60%.
Now I know 21% stun is low, and maybe its just cuz I just posted the auction late last night, but if I got 15% more stun I would probably have lost 10% base and I was under the assumption that, sliceable or no, base of 55-56% is garbage.
I guess I will extend my auction and keep bumping it and if no one wants em, I can surely find a use for em. I set the min at 100k per I would think these helms to be worth at least that much on any server.
Message Edited by Broog on 04-27-2004 10:36 AM
There are those who would tell you no and those who would tell you yes. The people who would tell you no are of the school of mind that the higher the resist is always the best way to go. The reason being pretty obvious, the higher the resist the lower the damage received.
Now as far as low stun goes, I think it really depends on what you intend it to protect against. Even putting a 3% stun layer in armor can have a significant effect against 3 of the 4 stun weapons in game. The reason being is that tangle pistols, geo sonic blasters, and stun batons are all AP0 and automatically suffer a 50% damage reduction from AR1.
Now against the jawa ion rifle the benefit from a light stun layer isn't as beneficial. The ion rifle is an AP1 weapon so the AR1 provided by the stun layer just removes the 25% damage bonus that the rifle normally has...that is if the bonus worked against armor that is stun vulnerable. Currently AP weapons do not get any sort of bonus vs armor that is vulnerable to its damage type. So in the case of the ion rifle, making a helmet that is triple layered with max stun resists is probably the best way to go to protect against head shot 3.
ChryssSR wrote:
There are those who would tell you no and those who would tell you yes. The people who would tell you no are of the school of mind that the higher the resist is always the best way to go. The reason being pretty obvious, the higher the resist the lower the damage received.
Now as far as low stun goes, I think it really depends on what you intend it to protect against. Even putting a 3% stun layer in armor can have a significant effect against 3 of the 4 stun weapons in game. The reason being is that tangle pistols, geo sonic blasters, and stun batons are all AP0 and automatically suffer a 50% damage reduction from AR1.
Now against the jawa ion rifle the benefit from a light stun layer isn't as beneficial. The ion rifle is an AP1 weapon so the AR1 provided by the stun layer just removes the 25% damage bonus that the rifle normally has...that is if the bonus worked against armor that is stun vulnerable. Currently AP weapons do not get any sort of bonus vs armor that is vulnerable to its damage type. So in the case of the ion rifle, making a helmet that is triple layered with max stun resists is probably the best way to go to protect against head shot 3.
Ok that I agree with about the Ion Rifle but here is what puzzles me.
For a moment forget about stun. On my server I see suits of 80kin 65base sell for 400k like they were going out of style. I have seen on rare occasion a sale or discounted suit that was as low as 300k. The 4 major components of the suit are Helmet Chest Legs Boots. If that suit, on that server, sold for 400k I would have to think if you broke it up piece by piece, the Helm and Chest have a value of maybe 80-100k each.
Thats what is bothering me the most. I just assumed I would at least have had a bid at the minimum of 100k right now for 66% base possibly even without any stun protection. Yes the Kinetic is not special 80% like the 400k suit, but the people that know realize that it is better to have 66% kinetic as a base stat which is sliceable well over 80%.
Oh well I will just give it more time or put them in my back pocket. My alt with the colored flashlight could sure use one...
Broog wrote:
...so I guess using the really good resources helped a TON.
Just a side note- the quality of the colat will drive the overall effectiveness of the armor more than any other resource in its creation. If you look at the experimentation percentages during crafting, the advanced segments are much lower overall than the layers or final assembly. Hence, a few percentage points of experimental quality may not do much for the base resists of the final assembly, but a few percentage points of experimental effectiveness mean a great deal in the segment experimentation.
For example, we recently had a marginally better colat spawn on Shadowfire. Similar improvements in quality for resources used in the final assembly didn't do much, if anything at all. That same improvement in the quality of the colat drove 2% to 3% improvements in base effectiveness for myself and many of the other 'smiths I talk to.
I have to second this, the biggest improvements i find in my % arent from the hides i spent 100 cpu on that have 200 more sr than the ones i spent 20 cpu on. It is the colat or kiirium that gives you the more bang for the buck. Sadly tho i think some servers just have unforgiving resource gods... I think the average on shadowfire atm, is 65-70% base unsliced with 80% kinetic. There was some real nice stun layers made on nerf day a lil ways back, but they werent super amazing because we havent been blessed by the crism god. We did get blessed by the vertex god!
DirthNader wrote:
Broog wrote:
...so I guess using the really good resources helped a TON.
Just a side note- the quality of the colat will drive the overall effectiveness of the armor more than any other resource in its creation. If you look at the experimentation percentages during crafting, the advanced segments are much lower overall than the layers or final assembly. Hence, a few percentage points of experimental quality may not do much for the base resists of the final assembly, but a few percentage points of experimental effectiveness mean a great deal in the segment experimentation.
For example, we recently had a marginally better colat spawn on Shadowfire. Similar improvements in quality for resources used in the final assembly didn't do much, if anything at all. That same improvement in the quality of the colat drove 2% to 3% improvements in base effectiveness for myself and many of the other 'smiths I talk to.
i think our inikite vertex is 996 oq and 980 sr or something. And its pretty common on the server. Someone let the cat out of the bag the second it spawned. All i can say is with the new urvey droids you might miss less rare spawns than before so use them wisely while you craft.
ChryssSR wrote:Now against the jawa ion rifle the benefit from a light stun layer isn't as beneficial. The ion rifle is an AP1 weapon so the AR1 provided by the stun layer just removes the 25% damage bonus that the rifle normally has...that is if the bonus worked against armor that is stun vulnerable. Currently AP weapons do not get any sort of bonus vs armor that is vulnerable to its damage type. So in the case of the ion rifle, making a helmet that is triple layered with max stun resists is probably the best way to go to protect against head shot 3.
i agree with you in the following point: tripple layered stun with high Stun special resistance is the best way to protect against HS3.
BUT, i don't agree with you when it comes to AR1 to AR1: removing 50% is removing 50%. no matter if you remove 50% from 150 damage or 100 damage. if the AR1 gun hits you on a vulnerable spot, you will suffer additional 50% (or 25%) damage. removing this is will simply protect you from damage.
but i see it like that: in a high base allround composite its the best bet imho to remove the stun vulnerability. in my special case this results in the following stats for my "Allround" model:
8% Stun
80% Elec
70% Base
thats it! hope i didn't talk to much BS again ...
Nerun1 wrote:
ChryssSR wrote:
Now against the jawa ion rifle the benefit from a light stun layer isn't as beneficial. The ion rifle is an AP1 weapon so the AR1 provided by the stun layer just removes the 25% damage bonus that the rifle normally has...that is if the bonus worked against armor that is stun vulnerable. Currently AP weapons do not get any sort of bonus vs armor that is vulnerable to its damage type. So in the case of the ion rifle, making a helmet that is triple layered with max stun resists is probably the best way to go to protect against head shot 3.
i agree with you in the following point: tripple layered stun with high Stun special resistance is the best way to protect against HS3.
BUT, i don't agree with you when it comes to AR1 to AR1: removing 50% is removing 50%. no matter if you remove 50% from 150 damage or 100 damage. if the AR1 gun hits you on a vulnerable spot, you will suffer additional 50% (or 25%) damage. removing this is will simply protect you from damage.
but i see it like that: in a high base allround composite its the best bet imho to remove the stun vulnerability. in my special case this results in the following stats for my "Allround" model:
8% Stun
80% Elec
70% Base
thats it! hope i didn't talk to much BS again ...
IF AP worked against armor vulnerabilities (or a person who is unarmored) I would agree. Reducing damage by 25% is a good thing under any circumstance. Unfortunately (or fortunately depending on how you look at it), the combat system does not grant the 25% damage bonus per level of AP when it is used against an unarmored person or a person wearing armor that is vulnerable to the particular damage type being dealt. What that means is under the current system, if you are trying to protect against the ion rilfe (the only AP1 stun weapon) a light stun layer is barely better than being naked.
And for the record, I don't disagree with using light stun layers. Typically, when I put together a stun layered suit I will use a single light stun layer for all of the pieces EXCEPT for the helmet. The helmet I will max out the stun protection using triple stun layers maxed outfor special protection. The light stun layers to protect against the AP0 weapons used by fencers and pistoleers, the heavy triple-stun layers to protect against the AP1 weapon used by head shot spamming riflemen.
Message Edited by ChryssSR on 04-28-2004 09:19 AM
Man this is great info - I only wish I was more diligent in doing this type of research BEFORE blowing the little vertex gems I had. I believe its been months since vertex has shifted in on Lowca (at least according to swgcraft), and when the next shift hits everyone will have tons of it so stun composite won't really be a premium item anymore.
Oh well I will still find a use for my stun helms or let them rot on my vendor.