Armorsmith Archive
Thread: Suggestion For Blixtev: Layer Synergies
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AndJusticeForAll
Sun Apr 10, 2005 10:24 am
#1
Doubt this will be read, but I will post regardless.
I'm uncomfortable with the proposed elemental damage layering side effects. In particular I feel the heat/cold yinyang thing is off.
How about mixing things up a bit and adding synergies for the different layers.... this might be enough to keeparmorsmithing challengingeven with single-bar experimentation on cores as well.
My suggestion(s):
1) Make heat and cold layers a single layer, they both do the same thing... inhibit thermal energy flow, right?
2) Add an acidvulnerability to thermal effect layers... they are likely made of polymers and reactive metals/minerals etc... 
3) Add an electrical resist "synergy" to thermal layers.... if it is good at resisting conduction, high odds its pretty decent at electric too.
4) Electrical layers w/acid resist synergy.... corrosion effects are electrical in origin.
5) Acid resist electrical synergy
6) Remove the energy vuln from the secondas layer....
7) Adjust tertius layer to boost kinetic, blast and stun. vuln to energy/acid/thermal/electrical
Some of these are being addressed in the primus and secondus layers but I feel that heat/cold is redundant.... maybeI'm asking too much as you probabably have tons of new weapons with heat/cold elemental effects added, oh well.
On a side note, only the single resist layers ought to have synergistic bonuses.
Regardless, some more complexity would be welcome to help differentiate armor made by smiths with essentially the same resource base.... (I'm sure you dont want to see ppl running around in identical stuff)
Of course, an alternate to all of this would be to just allow us to experiment the layers like post-CURB powerups.... one line for effectiveness, other to lower penalties.
Just tossing out some ideals, feel free to pick them apart ppl.
I would also like to add, that while it will be a pain to gather and select the new resources for layers, juggling multiple resource types SHOULD be the job of a tree with the title "Materials Specialist".
Message Edited by AndJusticeForAll on 04-10-2005 12:26 PM
Insidius
Sun Apr 10, 2005 11:28 am
#2
There comes a point when game balance and fun overrides realism.
I think this is one of those situations.
And honestly, what's the difference if a heat layer is vulnerable to cold OR acid?
The point is, it's strong againstone element, and weak against another. Which are which is ultimately arbitrary.
I think this is one of those situations.
And honestly, what's the difference if a heat layer is vulnerable to cold OR acid?
The point is, it's strong againstone element, and weak against another. Which are which is ultimately arbitrary.
AndJusticeForAll
Sun Apr 10, 2005 11:50 am
#3
I dont think its arbitrary. This is starwars, not some fantasy elemental game, so some physics should be upheld (hehe to a point).
I really just want more options... especially if most of my stuff is going to be custom work with loot enhancers. Some way to negate penalties that enhancers will probably have com publish must be present.
DiceDuP
Sun Apr 10, 2005 11:59 am
#4
At least your trying mauro, ignore that insidius idiot, he is simply a non- AS forum troll intent on winding us all up.
Sehera
Sun Apr 10, 2005 1:29 pm
#5
can only underline, that in most solid state materials, the effects which lead to high thermal conduction are very much the same as those leading to electrical conduction, talking about free electron gas ...
ok, thu, we are talking about cold... well, we could argue that to dodamage some seriously (to death) with something that is cold, it should be very cold... (for a realistic analysis we could say someones is firing with liquid HE-Isotopes (20mK) - in starwars not too far from unrealistic 
, there for we can argue, that we have temperatures below lets say 10K on the outer layer of the armor... these low temperatures are leading to a much lower specific heat capacity as it goes with T^3 and a possibility for the material to become superconductive (for non physics, most materials become super conductive at temperatures below 4K ) Thu I must admit, I dont know if thermal conductivity raises with superconductivity...
, there for we can argue, that we have temperatures below lets say 10K on the outer layer of the armor... these low temperatures are leading to a much lower specific heat capacity as it goes with T^3 and a possibility for the material to become superconductive (for non physics, most materials become super conductive at temperatures below 4K ) Thu I must admit, I dont know if thermal conductivity raises with superconductivity...Bottomline is: Heat/Cold dont need to show a physical realisty synergy because of the realtion between thermal conductivity and electrical conductivity, because we have to take the Temperature into account (as for very rough guess conductivity goes like 1/T)
Sehera
Message Edited by Sehera on 04-10-2005 01:31 PM
AndJusticeForAll
Sun Apr 10, 2005 6:08 pm
#6
/nerd
Sehera wrote:
can only underline, that in most solid state materials, the effects which lead to high thermal conduction are very much the same as those leading to electrical conduction, talking about free electron gas ...
ok, thu, we are talking about cold... well, we could argue that to dodamage some seriously (to death) with something that is cold, it should be very cold... (for a realistic analysis we could say someones is firing with liquid HE-Isotopes (20mK) - in starwars not too far from unrealistic
Bottomline is: Heat/Cold dont need to show a physical realisty synergy because of the realtion between thermal conductivity and electrical conductivity, because we have to take the Temperature into account (as for very rough guess conductivity goes like 1/T)
Sehera
Message Edited by Sehera on 04-10-2005 01:31 PM
Bah, only way that could be justified is if the weapon coupled coldand THENelectrical damage, otherwise electricalresistivity of the material will still be linear relation. (but not inverse)
Inversely itsworth notingthat as heat of armor increased so would electrical and acid resistance. (hehe)
/endnerd
Desolator_One
Sun Apr 10, 2005 6:15 pm
#7
was talking solely about thermal conduction...
thermal conductivity goes like 1/T just like electrical, that was my point for having effects working to get a cold protection than for heat protection...
electricity cant stack with cold either..... imho
Sehera
Sun Apr 10, 2005 6:29 pm
#8
AndJusticeForAll wrote:
/nerd
Sehera wrote:
can only underline, that in most solid state materials, the effects which lead to high thermal conduction are very much the same as those leading to electrical conduction, talking about free electron gas ...
ok, thu, we are talking about cold... well, we could argue that to dodamage some seriously (to death) with something that is cold, it should be very cold... (for a realistic analysis we could say someones is firing with liquid HE-Isotopes (20mK) - in starwars not too far from unrealistic
Bottomline is: Heat/Cold dont need to show a physical realisty synergy because of the realtion between thermal conductivity and electrical conductivity, because we have to take the Temperature into account (as for very rough guess conductivity goes like 1/T)
Sehera
Message Edited by Sehera on 04-10-2005 01:31 PM
Bah, only way that could be justified is if the weapon coupled coldand THENelectrical damage, otherwise electricalresistivity of the material will still be linear relation. (but not inverse)
Inversely itsworth notingthat as heat of armor increased so would electrical and acid resistance. (hehe)
/endnerd
gave it another thought...
in a physically realistic view, armor protecting against
short bursts of heat:
would need a high specific heat capacity so it doesn melt in the short time + low conductivity so the wearer isnt burnt
short bursts of cold:
would need a peltier element coupled with high conductive heat spreader
short burst of electricity:
would need a dielectricum with a very low conductivity and a very high threshold voltage for leakage
acid:
ask a chemist 
peltier elements are two metals combine, where we have an electrical diffusion flow, which makes peltier elements transfer heat to cold or vice versa. These are metalls there wouldnt with stand a high burst of electricity
Sehera
Quizz
Sun Apr 10, 2005 6:53 pm
#9
lol...u guys have to much time in college
Message Edited by Quizz on 04-10-2005 06:54 PM
AndJusticeForAll
Sun Apr 10, 2005 7:09 pm
#10
Sehera wrote:
AndJusticeForAll wrote:
/nerd
Sehera wrote:
can only underline, that in most solid state materials, the effects which lead to high thermal conduction are very much the same as those leading to electrical conduction, talking about free electron gas ...
ok, thu, we are talking about cold... well, we could argue that to dodamage some seriously (to death) with something that is cold, it should be very cold... (for a realistic analysis we could say someones is firing with liquid HE-Isotopes (20mK) - in starwars not too far from unrealistic
Bottomline is: Heat/Cold dont need to show a physical realisty synergy because of the realtion between thermal conductivity and electrical conductivity, because we have to take the Temperature into account (as for very rough guess conductivity goes like 1/T)
Sehera
Message Edited by Sehera on 04-10-2005 01:31 PM
Bah, only way that could be justified is if the weapon coupled coldand THENelectrical damage, otherwise electricalresistivity of the material will still be linear relation. (but not inverse)
Inversely itsworth notingthat as heat of armor increased so would electrical and acid resistance. (hehe)
/endnerd
gave it another thought...
in a physically realistic view, armor protecting against
short bursts of heat:
would need a high specific heat capacity so it doesn melt in the short time + low conductivity so the wearer isnt burnt
short bursts of cold:
would need a peltier element coupled with high conductive heat spreader
short burst of electricity:
would need a dielectricum with a very low conductivity and a very high threshold voltage for leakage
acid:
ask a chemist
peltier elements are two metals combine, where we have an electrical diffusion flow, which makes peltier elements transfer heat to cold or vice versa. These are metalls there wouldnt with stand a high burst of electricity
Sehera
lol for acid you need something with strong passivity.... OR complete immunity to electrochemical attack. (like some forms of ceramics and some of the noble metals)
interesting.... you could add a kinetic vuln to acid protection as many anti-corrosion layering techniques are rather brittle... hehe ya quizz i spend too much time with head in books. (im studying to be chemist heh)
Message Edited by AndJusticeForAll on 04-10-2005 09:11 PM
Quizz
Mon Apr 11, 2005 12:37 am
#11
DiceDuP wrote:
At least your trying mauro, ignore that insidius idiot, he is simply a non- AS forum troll intent on winding us all up.
/amen to that
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