Armorsmith Archive
Thread: Proposal of New AS System for the CU
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-FireStorm-
Mon Apr 11, 2005 4:25 pm
#1
Hello everyone,
With all the recent changes in the way for our profesion, some friends and me decided to create a "What do we want out of the new CU" wishlist, and we believe it came up quite good, in fact so good that we decided to streamline it and offer it for consideration for the new system, if you feel that you agree with our proposal please state so in the hopes (however slim) that a developer might see this post.
Ok it all started with us atacking the key problems in AS while at the same time giving reasonable and factible solutions to these problems. so we came up with a few pointers that we had to make clear before we started.
There isMAINLY3 kinds of armor in this game
The every day grind armors that MUST STAY CHEAP so the average player can play and not work10 hours to buy his armor these arenamely Ubese (70-73%)and cheap grinding composite (80kin/50-65 base)
The PVP (Composite 80-90/40 stun) and PVE (Composite 80kin/80-80 base) Hardcore armors that are usually composed of expensive loots, These armors WILL be expensive
And the Special armors (Tantel LS armors, RIS, Wookie, etc) which are made on demand by the customers
They key to the health ofcurrent armor industry is mass production, people need a lot of armor and at an affordable price,you cant have armorsmiths working on 15 diferent kinds of armors hoping people will buythatkind,for this we have come up with a method of simplifying the way armor is made to the point where you can still make unique armor pieces while still retaining the ability to mass produce if you deem it necesary.
The idea to separate the guts of the armor from the looks, that in essence is the greatest idea the CU could have EVER come up with, its awesome! however the way it is being implemented TOTALLY undermines the spirit behind this idea, our proposed idea is as follows.
First you create layers in the EXACT same way you do now (resource wise, resist wise will be covered lower in this document) these you add into something we want to call "A generic armor segment" these are segments that can be added into ANY armor, these work in the same way as layers work right now, the more segments the more resistance the armor has along with its respective encumbrance costs as well.
These segments will oviously be of diferent levels the basic the intermediate and the advanced (the advanced holding up to 3 layers) each kind will have better resists and encumbrance than the previous kind since it would require a higher skill in AS to make much like current composite and ris segments work.
After you make these segments these will be added into the "shell" these shells will require LARGE amounts of resources to make, but they will never decay, we know it sounds odd but allow us to explain in a more detailed fashion.
Imagine you walk into an armorsmiths shop and you see "RIS Helmet - JohnDoes Armor [JDA]" for 1 million you buy it and you recieve a deed with this name, the second you press USE u get an option to select the colors, and the kind of armor this will be, if you selectASSAULT it will have up to a maximum capability of 3 armor segments, if you selected RECON (these being the light armor its supposed to be) it will end up having 1 max segment slot and if you select BATTLE it will have a maximum of 2 segments.
So you decide this Ris piece will be blue/red and be RECON since you are a pistoleer and cannot wear any other armor kind, here you are with your RECON RIS helmet with 1 free segment socket, so you decide ur gonna grind tonight and not pvp, you then proceed to access your armorsmiths Segments vendor and in the list theres 2 crates of 10 segments each that read: "UBER OMG NIGHTSISTERenhanced Kinetic holy crap leetzor segments" priced at 500k and another that says "Grinding Kinetic ElCheapo Segments" priced at 25k since you decide ur not gonna fight UBER hard mobs upurchase the ElCheapo segments crate and put it in your back pack, you then proceed to pop a segment out of the crate andopen the RADIAL menu on your now RECON RIS helmet then select OPEN and once u see the "container" screen open you drag the armor segment into the helmet container and close it in much the same way lightsabers work now with pearls, instantly your helmet now reflects the inherent bonuses/penalties of that specific "skin" (IE RIS gets 20% bonust to kinetic but for instance tantel gets 15% bonus to lightsaber + what ever else your segment had), and presto! you now have a piece of armor that used to be generic, tailored to YOUR specific needs and with almost no hassle!
If you were following the entire idea youd see that this would be utterly incredible if it would be possible, this would allow us to make MASS produced "skin" deeds that people can customize as they want meaning color and kind of armor type (recon, assault and battle) so that we wouldnt have to make specific kinds of armor for specific people.
ALSO the fact that now we can mass produce cheap composite segments that are used as wear and throw away "chips" that can be replaced and discarded when nesesary is a BIG + in terms of how we can mass produce armor for the masses with very little effort.
PVP armor segments will be made out of looted components and rare to make thus making exceptional segments possible only in small quantities.
for instanceyoumake a run of 10 nightsister enhanced segments that you sell for more.
The posibilities for this are endless! so many combinations are possible, each one made by the player u can mix and match segments/skins to make the combination of resists you want, and since they are interchangeable u can change them prior to a fight and dont need to carry 5 diferent sets of armor depending on who your fighting.
Theres another problem with the current system in the works on the CU, the resistances arent simple to decipher, they have random numbers no one knows what they mean, our proposal is go back to the old grading system while still retaining the fundamental core of what you were tryign to do with the CU, this means keep the whole % idea meaning 30% means 30% of that damage is or will be blocked by the armor and not the current Energy Resist 5398/5320 that no one has a clue what it means and its hard for a new person to understand.
The following are the technical implications of our idea:
Set a MAXIMUM protection limit to say 60 or 70% maximum protection to any specific damage kind
Keep resources as they are now for layers, these are perfect as they are now, easy resources for comon layers and hard resources for uncommon layers
Create an "Advanced Generic Armor Segment" with completely new and generic resources with1 or 2enhancementaddon sockets (IE 20 units of steel 13 units of ore 10 units of copper, no named resources in this armor component, or named if you like /shrug its only that if its generic makes no sense to use specific resources)
Makesegmentsstay as they are now with theselected "layer" bonus and a DEFAULT BASE bonus, this bonus means a BASE resist to ALL damage kinds regardless of layer but in a lower amount
Create a CDEF Armor cert that whenselected as a skincert allows the aplication of a CDEF - Generic Armor Segment into the armor alongwith a "crafters survival suit" or some other skin enhancing mod that gives the wearer 2000more HP but is only activemeanwhile the armor is in place, andcan only be used with CDEF certed skins
Create a "CDEF - Generic Armor Segment" that cannot be layered and has moderate resist caps(20-30%) and can be added into ANY skin,
Make Skins have their "armor class" selected when the armor deed is redeemed into the following 4 clases: CDEF(or some other name),Recon, Battle and Assault.
CDEF can hold 1 CDEF Generic Armor Segment- Any player can use this regardless of their class (un certed)
Recon can hold 1 Non-Advanced or Advanced Generic Armor Segment - Class restricted
Battle can hold2 Non-Advanced or Advanced Generic Armor Segments - Class restricted
Assault can hold3 Non-Advanced or Advanced Generic Armor Segments - Class restricted
This will allow a crafter to CDEF Cert his RIS armor so he can wear it around for fun and looks and still have it be semi usefull to survive a run to his harvesters and not be 1 shot kills with the added HP.
Make some skins have protection levels, for example tantel and mabari arelight armors to the most they can get is 1 segment basically restricting them to assault armors,padded has2 allowing them to be recon or battle andcomposite has 3 allowing them to be reconbattle or assault(names can change but a system like this would ensure versatility)
Every skin should add their inherent bonus, for example composite would have a higher base resist tantel lightsaber padded blast etc.
Layers should stay as they are in a way that youcan pick a defensive bonus on a given damage type at the expense of a penalty in another, these are based off the "special protection" section of the armor, if you add a cold you lower heat but if you add 2 heat and 1 cold u get the base bonus of 3 layers and the heat bonus of 1 heat layer even tho u used 2 since 1 canceled the other.\
The idea is to have armors that look like this:
Layers would be 5 Base +10% special protection -10% penalty protectionas a cap <- the experimentation on these should do miracles allowing for so many diferent posibilities on these layers
The following are examples of how armors would look like: (keep in mind we didnt do much research on this lol but heck its something)
Recon Armor
Skin:Tantel
Amount of segmentssockets:1
Test segment made of3 energy layers
Special Protection:
45% energy (15% from base +30 from layers)
-15% acid (15% from base -30 from layers)
Armor Resistance:
15% base (5% x 3 layers)
Special Armor Bonus:
Corthosis Weave: +15% lightsaber (armor inherent)
Corthosis Weave: Enhanced Lightness: -100 Armor Encumbrance
Encumbrance Modifier:
Armor Encumbrance Modifier: 413 - 100
The values can change but the idea is around what were shooting for, this would be the armor of a pistoleer
BattleArmor
Skin: Padded
Amount of segmentssockets:2
Test segments made of3 energy layers and 3 kinetic layers
Special Protection:
60% energy (30% from base +30 from Layers)
60%kinetic(30% from base +30 from Layers)
60% Blast ((30% from base +30 from Armor Bonus)
0% acid (30% from base -30 from Layers)
0%electric (or what ever is the counter of kinetic)(30% from Base -30 from Layers)
Armor Resistance:
30% base (5% x6 layers)
Special Armor Bonus:
NomeX Grade 5Patches: +30% Heat
NomeX Grade 5Patches: -4% Regeneration
Encumbrance Modifier:
Armor Encumbrance Modifier: 824
AssaultArmor
Skin: Composite
Amount of segmentssockets:3
Test segments made of3 energy layers, 3 kinetic layers and 3heat layers
Special Protection:
70% Energy (45% from base +30 from layers - caps at 70%)
70%Kinetic(45% from base +30 from layers - caps at 70%)
70% Heat (45% from base +30 from layers - caps at 70%)
15% Cold(45% from base -30 from layers)
15% Acid (45% from base -30 from layers)
15% Electric (or what ever is the counter of kinetic)(45% from base -30 from layers)
Armor Resistance:
65% base (5% x6 layers +20% from armor)
Special Armor Bonus:
Starfighter Hull Plating: +20%Base
Starfighter Hull Plating: +200 Armor Encumbrance
Encumbrance Modifier:
Armor Encumbrance Modifier 1232 + 200
The values can change keep in mind the new %s are completely diferent than before and these are just for ilustrative purposes but the idea is around what were shooting for, this would be the armor of a Heavy swordsman or a rifleman, in essence a tank, slow as hell firing speeds but insane resistances, these characters would normally get OWNED in pvp due to their slow firing rates but they are KEY to a successfull strike on a bigger mob like a krayt dragon as no other profesion can sustain that damage.
Other stuff:
Allow Recon armor to accept 1 segment battle 2 and assault 3, this would go more along the philosophy of "want a tougher armor pick astronger class" which is true for most games, the whole idea of one kind of armor is vulnerable to another is VERY complicated and its hard for everyone to see the straight forward look in terms of whats the BEST armor if you wantto be a tankpick a tank class that allows you to wieldheavy armor, this however doesnt meant that all will pick a flavor of the month class just because their armor is better, a pistoleer for example will fire MUCH faster than a person in EXTREMELY heavy armor thus compensating for the loss of resists in pvp, BUT a person in extremely heavy armor will be able to tank much better in a group vs a high end mob (IE a krayt) than a pistoleer, so bigger doesnt necesarily mean better, its just so people understand the concept of lighter armor faster vs heavy armor slower which is easier to grasp rather than vulnerability vs resistance that is right now which is kind of vague considering the values are too random, this will basically ensure PVP balance while also mantaining the ability for people to tank huge mobs without being vulnerable to them.
Factor encumbrance as a total number to promote simple understanding of the system, for example, each piece of armor will add a specific amount to encumbrance to your "overall encumbrance" level, regarless what piece your wearing your firing speed and dodge or what not will be based off this number, people can easily see how when they equip stronger heavier armors no matter what parts, their speeds and response times go down the drain, this permits the creation of ppl that desire heavier armors on some parts and lighter on others to match their armors as they desire while still having their atack modifiers reduced acordingly in a balanced fasion
Segment decay. segments should decay at 3x the speed on recon armor 2x the speed on battle and 1x on assault to compensate the point that these armors use less segments, this should ensure that even tho ur armor uses less "renewable" segments you still get to replace them as fas as someone wearing a heavier armor and ensures overall balance.
As a side note:
To Combat thenever ending problem ofrare resources and resource shifts we propose theaddition of Resource Brokers into the game,This would beNPCs with shops muchlike junk dealers now have but these woud sellcurrent or "Old" (no longer In-Shift) resources at higher rates than anyone could ever get by farming them, These resource brokers would work in quite the same way as the current "Free 30k Resource" deeds but with a slight diference that they will sell you the resource of your choice, Current "In-Spawn" resources would have a cost of 10 CPUs and older resources would have their costs adjusted as the spawn gets older to a cap of 100 or 150 CPUs for resources over a year old, the nice thing about these NPCs would be that their costs are 5x as much cost than farming anything yourself, making them imposible to be used as a primary source of resources, but reasonable enough to let people who have just started into the buisness get the resources they would otherwise be unable to get, needless to say these will have to be restricted toHarvester-Atainable resources only as meats and hides would not come from this for ovious reasons (u have to keep rangers doing something lol).
The absolute greatest thing about these npcs is that A) resource farmers can still make a profit by selling under the NPC cost, B) All the money that these NPCs get is automatically REMOVED from the game automatically helping inflation and the overall economy of the game by being MASSIVE money sinks, and C) no longer do AS and WS have to stock hundreds of millions of resources unless they dont want to spend money on the NPC, this will in GREAT measure help the economy as a whole not to mention that armor prices can go down acordingly now that you can get a reasonablystable ource of resources at a reasonably stable price, For example if an armor uses 50 units of a resource you can now set the price to be 50+10% profit and be fair, however if you had a hoard of that resource then you would be paying a lot less and have in turn more profit for you. Ether way you see it this idea is a win-win for everyone, the game as a whole and the players themselves.
Theres hundreds of things more that i would like to add but cant remember offhand and im sure im forgettign some important stuff ill try to add them as i go, if you have ANY questions about this system or sugestions please feel free to voice your opinion and ill modify it acordingly, the idea is to make a "wish list" of what we would want to see made on the game and pray the devs would look at it heh.
We hope you found our suggestions helpfull. please feel free to offer your own if you feel they complemet these in any way
-FireStorm-
Mon Apr 11, 2005 4:27 pm
#2
lol sorry if that was too long it was necesary lol
Man, my typing skills suck lol my ideas are all a mess, please bear with me its hard trying to put all that info in paper and still make it be understandable
Message Edited by -FireStorm- on 04-11-2005 06:40 PM
VegitoSS
Mon Apr 11, 2005 5:19 pm
#3
Read my suggestion about armor deeds. It would be the easiest way to free a smith up from supply request. There are only 3 types of armor now. Recon, Battle, and assault. Layers will set them appart from each other. Armor model cosmetics mean nothing to the armors stats and type. So you can use Chitin Armor thats exact same in stats as composite armor. If they made each of the three types deeds instead of having to select a type and color, it would make things much more simple for us. The end user can deed the armor and choose the cosmetic qualitys to suit their taste. This will take the problem of smiths having to make each type and color of armor that does the same stats.
It would be sweet and if that was possible I would love it. Like you said making all armor types something usefull is great. However, making smiths try and fill the demand for all the different combinations defeats the purpose of it. Let the end user decide what color and model type they want their, example... 3 layered Battle armor to be. Take it off the smiths hands and let us focus on making good armor and not worry about model skins and colors.
Ryche_Mykola
Mon Apr 11, 2005 5:35 pm
#4
Experimentation Lines - 4 total:
1 for Resists
1 for each Hindrance type (accuracy, movement, etc)
This shouldn't really unbalance armor imo either.
I hope you could really push this idea also Okram, It would solve a lot of issues as far as skill tapes and we wouldn't be glorified power-up makers either.
1 for Resists
1 for each Hindrance type (accuracy, movement, etc)
This shouldn't really unbalance armor imo either.
I hope you could really push this idea also Okram, It would solve a lot of issues as far as skill tapes and we wouldn't be glorified power-up makers either.
-FireStorm-
Mon Apr 11, 2005 6:30 pm
#6
Yeah the idea was to keep the current experimentation system as is and add the new modifiers to it like you said for hindrance types
JZeus-Sarono
Mon Apr 11, 2005 7:15 pm
#7
my head hurts now lol
nice job...
And yes I feel a smith that knows his/her trade the best with the best resources and +12 points should be able to seperate his/her armors from the rest one way or another.
The way they have it atm in TC a total n00b grinds out master gets some 2-3 CPU resources from a grind resources shop will make about the same as someone like me who strives to push the limets of perfection with 12 point double amazing success armors with the best resources to ever spawn.
You have alot of fine Ideas... will any dev care? no, sorry to say but thats is the truth. They want to be our parents and tell us what is best for us.
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