Armorsmith Archive

Thread: To whomever said armor is useless with CL grouping in the game:

ZionHalcyon
Mon Jun 06, 2005 10:31 am
#1

You are an idiot.


That is all.


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No, not really, I actually have a trip that backs this up.


I decided to test this theory under the most extreme conditions - The Avatar.


Let me tell you, I died about 7 times up there with no armor, and the damage I was taking was pretty harsh.


Mobs were CL 80 - CL 87 up there, and I was up there with a group of 8, using 4 jedi as healers. I just found that I would often get incapped by the time someone got around to healing me.


Also, I had someone who wears the same armor I do, and they were getting shelled for less damage, and he only got whacked once when he strayed a little too far.


All in all, let me tell you, armor DOES make a difference, at least when tackling mobs in groups that are a few levels higher. It is the difference between smooth sailing and a rough night.



On a side note, I am looking forward to going back up there - it was fun for me and the guys in PAX to cruise right up there in my Yacht.



Z I O N U H A L C Y O N
J O R R EN U DA RK S T A R
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Jorren's Spy Kill-o-meter:
334 Rebels |5 Jetpacks | 4 BARC | 3 AT-RT | 2 Desert Skiff | 2 AV-21
and countless speederbikes and land speeders.
I love being a spy.
oscabegra
Mon Jun 06, 2005 11:15 am
#2

Why would armor not make a difference? After all, a good set is going to be mitigating half the damage you take.






Osca

RelicOMO
Mon Jun 06, 2005 1:39 pm
#3






ZionHalcyon wrote:

You are an idiot.


That is all.







That's very sweet.


I have not done the Avatar Station, but I have done the Death Watch Bunker, all the way to the crafting room, and very recently (like two days ago). It's a place with a lot of level 89-93 mobs, and is probably similar to Avatar in that the damage that can be done to you is ridiculous. There were 3 in the group that were non-jedi - 1 was a crafter and thus had no armour, 2 were able to wear armour. One was in full primus layered battle armour, one had only just come back to the game and thus was wearing only a converted chestplate with about 2k resists.


The crafter was killed repeatedly, as can be expected. However, that is because as a level 1, she only had 1300 health and was easily killed in only a couple of hits. The two level 80 non-jedi, one in full elite armour, one in a low-grade chestplate, were killed virtually exactly the same number of times, which was thankfully not often.


Yes, the one in just a weak chestplate took more damage per hit. But this didn't change the dynamics of the situation - the presence or absence of armour didn't change anything about whether or not he was going to survive a situation. He either was, or he wasn't - the character in full elite armour was in exactly the same situation with regards to living or dying. He was either able to survive the situation by dint of level and group dynamics, or he wasn't.


When I hunt krayts solo, or Nightsisters, or Dark Jedi Masters, I wear no armour. It makes no difference as to whether or not I will survive the fight. I will either successfully use my skills to win, or if I make a few mistakes, I lose. Wearing armour or having no armour makes no difference as to the outcome of the fight - it depends on my level and my ability as a player. My friends and contacts, all experienced loot hunters and PvEers, feel exactly the same way - they also wear no armour for high or low end PvE, because it makes no difference as to the eventual outcome.


Yes, armour does reduce your damage taken. That's obvious. I would argue that the quality of the armour is not really important - as in, high end armour has pretty much the same effect as low end armour - but that's an issue for another post. But I believe the original point, which is that armour makes no difference as to the actual outcome of the PvE fight. PvP is another matter - level modifiers don't seem to exist in PvP, so armour really does affect the outcome. (It affects the outcome once levels are the same, anyway.) Armour is, however, not necessary or relevant to PvE.
cloudwalker1
Mon Jun 06, 2005 2:12 pm
#4

if he took more damage he would have needed healing more often, healing someone takes away a attack as u use that time for healing, surley that is the advantage of higher quality armor





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ZionHalcyon
Tue Jun 07, 2005 9:34 pm
#5

Sorry, just had to chime in with my thoughts, simply because when the CURB first hit, there were quite a few people in here whining that armor did not matter in PvE and PVP because of the CL system. Just my shot back at them.



Z I O N U H A L C Y O N
J O R R EN U DA RK S T A R
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Jorren's Spy Kill-o-meter:
334 Rebels |5 Jetpacks | 4 BARC | 3 AT-RT | 2 Desert Skiff | 2 AV-21
and countless speederbikes and land speeders.
I love being a spy.
freedomwarrior
Wed Jun 08, 2005 5:59 am
#6

Nice to see you posting again zion. Armor does make a difference on mobs of 1 to 8 points higher than you. I think when they said armor didnt matter, they were referring to mobs of the same level. I could be wrong on that, but I believe thats what they meant.



-Ackire-

THE Retired
dMaster Armorsmithd
Located on the wonderful Planet of Naboo
Now located at -3256 3748, outside of Theed
-=X=-

Idena_Isrowei
Wed Jun 08, 2005 6:16 am
#7

The simple reduction of damage taken is enough to say that armor could make the difference. One less heal you have to do could mean one more attack you could make. In extreme differences of levels perhaps it becomes less of an issue, but I would never go so far as to completely discount it's use as not being practical. Now, decay rate would be an issue I believe, but that's another thing altogether.






___________________________________________
Idena Isrowei - Master Merchant
Retired 12pt Armorsmith
Retired 12pt Weaponsmith
Retired Teras Kasi Master
Retired Master Doctor
Retired Smuggler

AIM: IdenaIsrowei
Armor Museum located at 4410 -4837 outside Mos Eisley
ZionHalcyon
Wed Jun 08, 2005 7:51 am
#8






freedomwarrior wrote:
Nice to see you posting again zion. Armor does make a difference on mobs of 1 to 8 points higher than you. I think when they said armor didnt matter, they were referring to mobs of the same level. I could be wrong on that, but I believe thats what they meant.






It might have been during the time of "weeping and gnashing of teeth" on the AS forums pre and post CURB. People were making some pretty dumb blanket statements, and doing less than thorough tests and yet claiming to be experts.



And FYI - on the avatar, those CL 81 people hit hard; you need armor even when they are 1 level above you up there.





Z I O N U H A L C Y O N
J O R R EN U DA RK S T A R
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Jorren's Spy Kill-o-meter:
334 Rebels |5 Jetpacks | 4 BARC | 3 AT-RT | 2 Desert Skiff | 2 AV-21
and countless speederbikes and land speeders.
I love being a spy.
Thula
Wed Jun 08, 2005 8:43 am
#9

The arguments made during the "CU-revolt" still applies.Of coursearmor is notuseless, but it is much less important than level. And inmany of the PvE situations, the outcome of the fight is not depedant on whether you wear armor or not. This was very nicely explained in a post above so I am not going to elaborate more on it. And armor is an absolutenecessity in PvP, which is well known.


Most people don't know the realities about PvE, or don't care, so armor sales are still good. But with the high decay rate, people may start looking at alternatives and try out fighting without armor. When you take missions you are better off saving it.




Thula Moonrider -UNA-
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ZionHalcyon
Wed Jun 08, 2005 8:54 am
#10






Thula wrote:

The arguments made during the "CU-revolt" still applies.Of coursearmor is notuseless, but it is much less important than level. And inmany of the PvE situations, the outcome of the fight is not depedant on whether you wear armor or not. This was very nicely explained in a post above so I am not going to elaborate more on it. And armor is an absolutenecessity in PvP, which is well known.


Most people don't know the realities about PvE, or don't care, so armor sales are still good. But with the high decay rate, people may start looking at alternatives and try out fighting without armor. When you take missions you are better off saving it.







Ok, lets see. If the argument was "Armor doesn't matter any more", which is was during the "CU-Revolt" (not saying by all AS's, just some), then NO, the argument does NOT apply.


The argument that armor is now uselss is a fundamentally different argument than saying armor is less useful.


Saying armor is less useful also implies there is STILL a use for it. Saying it is useless, is well, saying there is no need for Armorsmiths anymore, which is NOT the case.


So I disagree that the Pre Curb argument still applies.





Z I O N U H A L C Y O N
J O R R EN U DA RK S T A R
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Jorren's Spy Kill-o-meter:
334 Rebels |5 Jetpacks | 4 BARC | 3 AT-RT | 2 Desert Skiff | 2 AV-21
and countless speederbikes and land speeders.
I love being a spy.
Capt_Obvious
Wed Jun 08, 2005 9:14 am
#11

Quite frankly Zion, I could give a rats ass less if armor worked anymore or not, all I care is that people still buy it like hamsters to a feedbar.


just my 2 cents





The-waco kid Retired Crafter extrordinaire
The-Waco Kid-Master Pistols, Master Carbines-PERMA-CANCELLED
-Nuna- Slayer-Master Armorsmith, Master Merchant-PERMA-CANCELLED!
Hunkahunka-Master Bounty Hunter, Master Rifles-
PERMA-CANCELLED!
Goodbye to all my friends and allies and enemies, may we meet on greener pastures somewhere else where the players dont get F'd over for spending the last 2 years of their lives playing a worthless POS of a game!
captenjonny
Wed Jun 08, 2005 10:51 am
#12






Capt_Obvious wrote:

Quite frankly Zion, I could give a rats ass less if armor worked anymore or not, all I care is that people still buy it like hamsters to a feedbar.


just my 2 cents







/ROFL



Captain Jonny
Capt_Obvious
Wed Jun 08, 2005 11:06 am
#13






captenjonny wrote:





Capt_Obvious wrote:

Quite frankly Zion, I could give a rats ass less if armor worked anymore or not, all I care is that people still buy it like hamsters to a feedbar.


just my 2 cents







/ROFL





Thank you I'll be here all week



The-waco kid Retired Crafter extrordinaire
The-Waco Kid-Master Pistols, Master Carbines-PERMA-CANCELLED
-Nuna- Slayer-Master Armorsmith, Master Merchant-PERMA-CANCELLED!
Hunkahunka-Master Bounty Hunter, Master Rifles-
PERMA-CANCELLED!
Goodbye to all my friends and allies and enemies, may we meet on greener pastures somewhere else where the players dont get F'd over for spending the last 2 years of their lives playing a worthless POS of a game!
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