Armorsmith Archive

Thread: Formulas for CU-Armour experimentation explained

Arem
Thu Apr 14, 2005 9:02 pm
#1



It is getting late or really early here in Europe, but I wanted to get this research data out to you even if some minor flaws are in there.


It seems that although the display is making a difference between Standard and Special Protection the internal calculation is just done once. I will callit Experimental Protectionand define the following:


GP =ExperimentalProtection{90%=0.9}
SPK = Standard protection Kinetic

SPE = Stanadard Protection Energy

SP = Special Protection HCAE

Battle Armor SPK=SPE=EP

Recon Armor SPK=EP-1000 and SPE=EP+1000

Assault Armor SPK=EP+1000 and SPE=EP-1000

For all furthercalcultion we just need EP(type).


I experimented on TC-EP3with Advanced Assault Cores and compared them to the armor issued from the blue frog terminals. All 4 steps work very linear, a lot easier than the math of the old system. All this data is derived from my own experiments and I made some simple y2-y1 delta calculation to get the results. Though I cant be 100% sure the results seem pretty realistic.


EPLayer = GP*100

{a Kinetic layer experimented to 62% will add62 points Kinetic and -62 points Energy}


The cap of 4-layerd Segmentsis 400 points.
Advanced Cores with 3 Segments would cap at1200 points bonus from layers.


EPSegment = (900*GP+100)+EPL1+EPL2+EPL3+EPL4

{Segment experimented to 62% with 4 of Kinetic Layers from the above example will makea Segment with (0.62*900+100)+(4*62)=906 Standard Protection Kinetic.


EPCore = (2750*GP+250)+EPS1+EPS2+EPS3

{Segment experimented to 64% with 3 Segments from above example will makea Core with(0.64*2750+250)+(3*906)=4728 Standard Protection Kinetic


Conclusion:

With 100% Resources 6000 Standard Protection + 1200 Standard protection (Layer) are possible.

The best ever Kinetic Protection Armor will be Reconnaisance with 8200 points.


The general Hindrance is a direct result from the protecetion value EPCore.

H = (10000-EPCore)/100%

edit: more detailed Hindrance explaination will follow.

Message Edited by Arem on 04-15-2005 07:00 AM

Message Edited by Arem on 04-18-2005 12:54 AM







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Ruebacca
Fri Apr 15, 2005 2:15 am
#2




H = (10000-EPCore)/100%




I am sure this required some overtime.


Thanks for the post. I want to see more of your resurch.







Ruebacca

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JangoFett100
Fri Apr 15, 2005 4:32 am
#3
Thank you so much for the information. I'm just so happy I was able to notice this post among all the others. I have 2 thoughts.


1. Did you mean the highest Kinetic would be assault, not recon armor.

2. We need to get more field testing done to really test the effectiveness of what you've made and what's on the frogs.



Qum - Retired Armorsmith
Alog - Grumpy Fish

Brutus_Krylop
Fri Apr 15, 2005 8:24 am
#4
This is a very important post with some serious implications. The fact that the general protection stat is entirely dependent only on segment and core experimentation almost implies that layers may not be needed quite so much as before.


If we only knew what the numbers actually meant . . .and if we only knew how elemental damage worked . . . and if we only knew how much damage a top-tier combatant will need to absorb through their armor . . .





Ehril Gospic -- Elder Jedi
Fahoo Gua'gads -- Elder Armorsmith
The Ironhead Armor Shop will return!

Biseks
Fri Apr 15, 2005 9:00 am
#5
Which if anyone would make me some damn armor I would tell you J/K Nice Arem, I see you came back and finished yer thoughts off. Good work and thankyou. I'll try get in shortly. Make me some basic recoon would ya? I'll start blowing it up

Biseks
speardancer
Fri Apr 15, 2005 9:29 am
#6

Brutus_Krylop wrote:
This is a very important post with some serious implications. The fact that the general protection stat is entirely dependent only on segment and core experimentation almost implies that layers may not be needed quite so much as before.
If we only knew what the numbers actually meant . . . and if we only knew how elemental damage worked . . . and if we only knew how much damage a top-tier combatant will need to absorb through their armor . . .




Yea, that's the problem with going to an 'abstract number' instead of the old % based system.....

We can assume a higher number is better, but how do we figure out how much damage a 3000 protection armor absorbs, compared to, say a 5000 protection armor?



Speardancer Master Artisian, Shipwright and 12pt Armorsmith *cancelation pending*
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TurboSith
Fri Apr 15, 2005 9:32 am
#7




Brutus_Krylop wrote:

This is a very important post with some serious implications. The fact that the general protection stat is entirely dependent only on segment and core experimentation almost implies that layers may not be needed quite so much as before.


If we only knew what the numbers actually meant . . .and if we only knew how elemental damage worked . . . and if we only knew how much damage a top-tier combatant will need to absorb through their armor . . .








not so much.. 6000 is theoretical perfect... to be realistic most will be hovering around 51-5200...


there are the tertius primus secundus layers taht add both kinetic and energy at the cost of elementals.... less of a bonus but those will probably be hte more sought after layers




xxxxxxXxxxxxx
 Squran s The Adversaries s Kantoe
s Smuggler s Shipwright s
You don't know the power of the Milk shake



Rancor418
Fri Apr 15, 2005 9:33 am
#8

speardancer wrote:

Brutus_Krylop wrote:
This is a very important post with some serious implications. The fact that the general protection stat is entirely dependent only on segment and core experimentation almost implies that layers may not be needed quite so much as before.
If we only knew what the numbers actually meant . . . and if we only knew how elemental damage worked . . . and if we only knew how much damage a top-tier combatant will need to absorb through their armor . . .




Yea, that's the problem with going to an 'abstract number' instead of the old % based system.....

We can assume a higher number is better, but how do we figure out how much damage a 3000 protection armor absorbs, compared to, say a 5000 protection armor?

Good points. We really need some "hard" #'s both with PVE and PVP. We have 3 weeks to try and put these together and bring up any problems we see.



Pave Darkwalker
.......:::: Proud Leader of Oasis ::::.......
| Master Munitions 12 Point Armor & Weapons|
| For Armor-Loot-Weapons Dantooine -4336 7160 |
Ithrien_Maiz
Fri Apr 15, 2005 9:42 am
#9
Thanx for the post Arem, nicely done


Xean <CORE>



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TurboSith
Fri Apr 15, 2005 9:43 am
#10




Rancor418 wrote:




speardancer wrote:




Brutus_Krylop wrote:

This is a very important post with some serious implications. The fact that the general protection stat is entirely dependent only on segment and core experimentation almost implies that layers may not be needed quite so much as before.


If we only knew what the numbers actually meant . . . and if we only knew how elemental damage worked . . . and if we only knew how much damage a top-tier combatant will need to absorb through their armor . . .








Yea, that's the problem with going to an 'abstract number' instead of the old % based system.....

We can assume a higher number is better, but how do we figure out how much damage a 3000 protection armor absorbs, compared to, say a 5000 protection armor?



Good points. We really need some "hard" #'s both with PVE and PVP. We have 3 weeks to try and put these together and bring up any problems we see.





to be honest... i dont think any of us AS testers have any professional certs for the armos so we wouldnt be able to even test it...


this is where the combat professions need to kick in and get to work and relay us what protection modifications are necessary and how appropriate armor is at different levels..




xxxxxxXxxxxxx
 Squran s The Adversaries s Kantoe
s Smuggler s Shipwright s
You don't know the power of the Milk shake



Rancor418
Fri Apr 15, 2005 9:46 am
#11




TurboSith wrote:




Rancor418 wrote:




speardancer wrote:




Brutus_Krylop wrote:

This is a very important post with some serious implications. The fact that the general protection stat is entirely dependent only on segment and core experimentation almost implies that layers may not be needed quite so much as before.


If we only knew what the numbers actually meant . . . and if we only knew how elemental damage worked . . . and if we only knew how much damage a top-tier combatant will need to absorb through their armor . . .








Yea, that's the problem with going to an 'abstract number' instead of the old % based system.....

We can assume a higher number is better, but how do we figure out how much damage a 3000 protection armor absorbs, compared to, say a 5000 protection armor?



Good points. We really need some "hard" #'s both with PVE and PVP. We have 3 weeks to try and put these together and bring up any problems we see.





to be honest... i dont think any of us AS testers have any professional certs for the armos so we wouldnt be able to even test it...


this is where the combat professions need to kick in and get to work and relay us what protection modifications are necessary and how appropriate armor is at different levels..




Very true. Then you are taking the numbers from someone who my not know a lot about armor. Mybe we can find someone who used to be an AS to help..Or hope the blue frogs hit soon. I just dont feel like grinding up on TC5 ATM

Message Edited by Rancor418 on 04-15-2005 11:47 AM



Pave Darkwalker
.......:::: Proud Leader of Oasis ::::.......
| Master Munitions 12 Point Armor & Weapons|
| For Armor-Loot-Weapons Dantooine -4336 7160 |
Brutus_Krylop
Fri Apr 15, 2005 9:53 am
#12




TurboSith wrote:




not so much.. 6000 is theoretical perfect... to be realistic most will be hovering around 51-5200...


there are the tertius primus secundus layers taht add both kinetic and energy at the cost of elementals.... less of a bonus but those will probably be hte more sought after layers





Yeah, my current thinking is that Primus Layers (+Kin/En -Acid/Elec/Heat) will be the big thing for most folks, particularly since elemental damage is the big "huh?" right now. High-Kinetic stuff will always be big, though I'm not sure if folks will want to so obviously gimp themselves on energy protection. The real problem with the advanced layers (and with all the layers, for that matter) is the massive resource cost.


Going off of what we know right now and how combat tends to break down, 4KL will be a very common build for creature-based PVE, 4EL will be a specialty for Jedi hunters, and 2PL+(basic)+(elemental) will probably be the most common PvP build.


I suppose what we'll really need to do is just test different builds and see what we can come up with. There's still a bit of thought that will have to go into the armor crafting system now, but the loss of experimental control still feels like a gutshot.




Ehril Gospic -- Elder Jedi
Fahoo Gua'gads -- Elder Armorsmith
The Ironhead Armor Shop will return!

Brutus_Krylop
Fri Apr 15, 2005 9:54 am
#13




Rancor418 wrote:

Very true. Then you are taking the numbers from someone who my not know a lot about armor. Mybe we can find someone who used to be an AS to help..Or hope the blue frogs hit soon. I just dont feel like grinding up on TC5 ATM

Message Edited by Rancor418 on 04-15-2005 11:47 AM



No doubt.



Ehril Gospic -- Elder Jedi
Fahoo Gua'gads -- Elder Armorsmith
The Ironhead Armor Shop will return!

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