Armorsmith Archive
Thread: Something Constructive I wanted to Post in Zion's Post
I think most people fail to realize just how interconnected professions are. The reason the devs decided to revamp the whole system is because they couldn't just tweak ONE profession without affecting all the others. We used to spend months and months in tweaks, if anyone cares to recall, and what did it get us? It gets us an increasingly unbalanced game.
Laying out a new ground work is by far the best idea that the devs ever came up with regards to the balance. You can't build a stable building of an inherently flawed foundation, no matter how many cracks you fill. Now if you folks don't stay in the parameters the devs layed out, then we're going to go back to the 'tweaking' phase and the combat balance will have been for nothing. If the American constitution didn't have some base, unchangeable ground rules, it would have never lasted as long as it has and I believe the same about the dev's guidelines for the CU.
The devs are professional game designers, and have spent considerable amount of time mapping out this CU. They aren't perfect but they've worked on this game for years and are able to see a big picture that a lot of can't see because we aren't in neck deep with code and design documents every day. Granted they can't see everything, and that's where we come in. Our job is to solidify the foundation, and make it more interesting, not take a chunk out of it and put something else in that won't work. Call me a brown noser if you like; I just call it common sense.
Like I said, I'm not an armorsmith, but I like to feel like I have an opinion too because I buy and use this stuff. I also believe that I have enough clarity in this situation to see what can change and what can't change. Let me elaborate:
1 - Resource cost - as far as I can tell, the amount of resources need to create a product has no bearing on combat balance. This would definitely fall in the parameters of changeable content. Why should an armor suit cost three times as much as it does now?
2 – Encumbrance – This to me does not seem like it’s something that can be changed because it’s inherently woven into the new system. The only people it would benefit are the novice elites, because from what I understand the master mitigations get rid of hindrance or encumbrance or whatever it’s called now. Has anyone considered that giving the novice elites extra padding might throw off a carefully tuned system, especially when it’s not in the original design document?
3 – Simplification – That seems to be, besides resources and costs, the biggest issue I’ve read about on this forum. You people need to focus on new ways of experimentation besides the ways that have been denied you if you want more complexity. Granted you won’t get it in the CU at this late stage, but it is definitely something to push for in the future.
4 – Faction Cost – Once again, I don’t see how this affects the balance other than making armor unattainable. Currently the amount of time armor lasts vs. the amount of time it takes to get it, well, that’s the biggest joke of all. Faction Costs on armor HAS to be reduced. We NEED people in their factional armor! It’s important to the Star Wars feel. Why should people have to spend a huge amount of extra faction points on armor that is fundamentally the same as non faction armor when it SHOULD be an incentive to have people where this stuff.
I’m sorry if the last four points are uninformed, but I’m doing my best to stay abreast of the new changes to the system. Bash Zion all you want for what he’s done in the past, but all I see is someone who actually trying to have some intelligent discussion at this point. You people haven’t learned anything about SOE at all if you think protesting and spam-bombing works on them. You can’t fight EVERYTHING and expect to win EVERYTHING, consumer or no. But maybe you CAN accomplish something if you keep a level head, and try to work within the parameters set before you.
And developers – you HAVE to tell the community when something is not possible ASAP. Your communication is decent to good, for the most part, but YOU ARE TOO AFRAID TO SAY NO. Just tell us some things can’t change RIGHT away. Don’t let us come to the assumptions and don’t let us stew over it, thinking there is a possibility that YES might be an answer.
There, I said my piece.
Monthigos wrote:
I'm not an armorsmith but all this bickering is sickening. I don't know you Zion, or what you've done in the past, but I completely agree with you on one issue: You've got work within the parameters that the devs set if you want to see anything get done.
I think most people fail to realize just how interconnected professions are. The reason the devs decided to revamp the whole system is because they couldn't just tweak ONE profession without affecting all the others. We used to spend months and months in tweaks, if anyone cares to recall, and what did it get us? It gets us an increasingly unbalanced game.
Laying out a new ground work is by far the best idea that the devs ever came up with regards to the balance. You can't build a stable building of an inherently flawed foundation, no matter how many cracks you fill. Now if you folks don't stay in the parameters the devs layed out, then we're going to go back to the 'tweaking' phase and the combat balance will have been for nothing. If the American constitution didn't have some base, unchangeable ground rules, it would have never lasted as long as it has and I believe the same about the dev's guidelines for the CU.
The devs are professional game designers, and have spent considerable amount of time mapping out this CU. They aren't perfect but they've worked on this game for years and are able to see a big picture that a lot of can't see because we aren't in neck deep with code and design documents every day. Granted they can't see everything, and that's where we come in. Our job is to solidify the foundation, and make it more interesting, not take a chunk out of it and put something else in that won't work. Call me a brown noser if you like; I just call it common sense.
Like I said, I'm not an armorsmith, but I like to feel like I have an opinion too because I buy and use this stuff. I also believe that I have enough clarity in this situation to see what can change and what can't change. Let me elaborate:
1 - Resource cost - as far as I can tell, the amount of resources need to create a product has no bearing on combat balance. This would definitely fall in the parameters of changeable content. Why should an armor suit cost three times as much as it does now?
2 – Encumbrance – This to me does not seem like it’s something that can be changed because it’s inherently woven into the new system. The only people it would benefit are the novice elites, because from what I understand the master mitigations get rid of hindrance or encumbrance or whatever it’s called now. Has anyone considered that giving the novice elites extra padding might throw off a carefully tuned system, especially when it’s not in the original design document?
3 – Simplification – That seems to be, besides resources and costs, the biggest issue I’ve read about on this forum. You people need to focus on new ways of experimentation besides the ways that have been denied you if you want more complexity. Granted you won’t get it in the CU at this late stage, but it is definitely something to push for in the future.
4 – Faction Cost – Once again, I don’t see how this affects the balance other than making armor unattainable. Currently the amount of time armor lasts vs. the amount of time it takes to get it, well, that’s the biggest joke of all. Faction Costs on armor HAS to be reduced. We NEED people in their factional armor! It’s important to the Star Wars feel. Why should people have to spend a huge amount of extra faction points on armor that is fundamentally the same as non faction armor when it SHOULD be an incentive to have people where this stuff.
I’m sorry if the last four points are uninformed, but I’m doing my best to stay abreast of the new changes to the system. Bash Zion all you want for what he’s done in the past, but all I see is someone who actually trying to have some intelligent discussion at this point. You people haven’t learned anything about SOE at all if you think protesting and spam-bombing works on them. You can’t fight EVERYTHING and expect to win EVERYTHING, consumer or no. But maybe you CAN accomplish something if you keep a level head, and try to work within the parameters set before you.
And developers – you HAVE to tell the community when something is not possible ASAP. Your communication is decent to good, for the most part, but YOU ARE TOO AFRAID TO SAY NO. Just tell us some things can’t change RIGHT away. Don’t let us come to the assumptions and don’t let us stew over it, thinking there is a possibility that YES might be an answer.
There, I said my piece.
This was the part of the game that we actually enjoyed. Now, those of us who stay with the profession (and I am, soon, not among them) will be creating overpriced, hard to find, largely undifferentiated pablum... I only did it to begin with because, to my apparantly warped sensibilities, the current system was "fun". It ain't fun no more...
Dulita
Besides, I'm not even entirely sure how I feel about what I said yesterday anymore. I've had some ...experiences... that have made me lose some of my faith in the new system. :/
maigy wrote:
Actually I know Zion and he is actually a very good guy... I have worked with him in the past. I think he is just getting frustrated with the constant complaining... Hesawthe new systemas a new challenge, He saw this as just new system to be figured out and worked with in.I disagree and I feel that this may be the worst thing ever and I anticapte cancelling all 3 of my accounts about 2 weeks after CU launches.
However, he told me yestereday that he was dropping AS after the CU, so I don't know why he would want to become the AS Corr.
I wouldn't. I don't want to waste my time, and the time of these people. When I fired the shot in NiBorg's post, I knew it was for sure the end of my being corro, and I did it anyway. I felt that it was something that had to be said.
Now that I have said it, and had some time off to cool down, I see that posts are FINALLY becoming constructive here, and that my constant bantering was not helping matters back 2 days ago. As such, aside from some questions about conversions, I am keeping a low profile, and trying to not get in the way any more.
I believe a few days ago, we all were trolls, feeding each other and burning down the forum in a blaze. Now that some control has been restored here, I am aware enough that if I interject my 2 cents in everywhere, the forum could go to hell again. As such, for the good of the community, I am keeping my profile low. I don't care whether they listened to me or not, anyway. All I cared about was the posts becoming more proactive than reactive. Now that they are, there really isn't a point to me harping on it any more.
Thanks for the back up btw maigy - most of the people here don't know me in-game, so they don't know what a sweetheart I can be. All they see is the pert of me that gets easily frustrated when I have to repeatedly explain myself over and over - and because of that, I really can't fault them for their perception of me.
ZionHalcyon wrote:
maigy wrote:
Actually I know Zion and he is actually a very good guy... I have worked with him in the past. I think he is just getting frustrated with the constant complaining... Hesawthe new systemas a new challenge, He saw this as just new system to be figured out and worked with in.I disagree and I feel that this may be the worst thing ever and I anticapte cancelling all 3 of my accounts about 2 weeks after CU launches.
However, he told me yestereday that he was dropping AS after the CU, so I don't know why he would want to become the AS Corr.
I wouldn't. I don't want to waste my time, and the time of these people. When I fired the shot in NiBorg's post, I knew it was for sure the end of my being corro, and I did it anyway. I felt that it was something that had to be said.
Now that I have said it, and had some time off to cool down, I see that posts are FINALLY becoming constructive here, and that my constant bantering was not helping matters back 2 days ago. As such, aside from some questions about conversions, I am keeping a low profile, and trying to not get in the way any more.
I believe a few days ago, we all were trolls, feeding each other and burning down the forum in a blaze. Now that some control has been restored here, I am aware enough that if I interject my 2 cents in everywhere, the forum could go to hell again. As such, for the good of the community, I am keeping my profile low. I don't care whether they listened to me or not, anyway. All I cared about was the posts becoming more proactive than reactive. Now that they are, there really isn't a point to me harping on it any more.
Thanks for the back up btw maigy - most of the people here don't know me in-game, so they don't know what a sweetheart I can be. All they see is the pert of me that gets easily frustrated when I have to repeatedly explain myself over and over - and because of that, I really can't fault them for their perception of me.
Good post Zion. I honestly was just trying to get you to realize you were doing nothing but fanning the flames. Once you didn't get that it got worse. Whether we agree or disagree going forward (and I'm willing to bet on which that will be) I'd like to thank you for these comments. It makes me think I knew the person you were, and will be again.
JangoFett100 wrote:
ZionHalcyon wrote:
maigy wrote:
Actually I know Zion and he is actually a very good guy... I have worked with him in the past. I think he is just getting frustrated with the constant complaining... Hesawthe new systemas a new challenge, He saw this as just new system to be figured out and worked with in.I disagree and I feel that this may be the worst thing ever and I anticapte cancelling all 3 of my accounts about 2 weeks after CU launches.
However, he told me yestereday that he was dropping AS after the CU, so I don't know why he would want to become the AS Corr.
I wouldn't. I don't want to waste my time, and the time of these people. When I fired the shot in NiBorg's post, I knew it was for sure the end of my being corro, and I did it anyway. I felt that it was something that had to be said.
Now that I have said it, and had some time off to cool down, I see that posts are FINALLY becoming constructive here, and that my constant bantering was not helping matters back 2 days ago. As such, aside from some questions about conversions, I am keeping a low profile, and trying to not get in the way any more.
I believe a few days ago, we all were trolls, feeding each other and burning down the forum in a blaze. Now that some control has been restored here, I am aware enough that if I interject my 2 cents in everywhere, the forum could go to hell again. As such, for the good of the community, I am keeping my profile low. I don't care whether they listened to me or not, anyway. All I cared about was the posts becoming more proactive than reactive. Now that they are, there really isn't a point to me harping on it any more.
Thanks for the back up btw maigy - most of the people here don't know me in-game, so they don't know what a sweetheart I can be. All they see is the pert of me that gets easily frustrated when I have to repeatedly explain myself over and over - and because of that, I really can't fault them for their perception of me.
Good post Zion. I honestly was just trying to get you to realize you were doing nothing but fanning the flames. Once you didn't get that it got worse. Whether we agree or disagree going forward (and I'm willing to bet on which that will be) I'd like to thank you for these comments. It makes me think I knew the person you were, and will be again.