Armorsmith Archive
Thread: Armorsmith Jornal Game Mechanics insight for Devs
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sandxor-scylla
Sat Jun 05, 2004 8:35 pm
#1
Often while I'm playing this game, I'll wonder if the developers really understand the customer experience that various proffesions go through. At work I spend a lot of time trying to understand my customers experience in dealing with our company, so I thought I'd put together a little armorsmith journal to show the devs what we go though.
The point isn't to say it's a bad experience (it's not). The SWG game mechanics are well ahead of many other games I've played and I really enjoy it. The point is to show the devs where the game mechanics could be improved.
I'll post my own conclutions and recommendations as a response to this post.
Every week I do a batch of a few different armor types. This jornal is mainly around me doing a run of Kinetic layered Comp armor (1 of 2-5 products I might try to get made in a given week). 200 suits will sell out in 5-9 days.
Step 1: Layers (about 4 hours of play time).
a. Jump over to Excel. 200 full suits 9 stacks of segments, 25 extra segments per stack (for schems) = 4425 total segments. Two layaers per segment, 10 extra layers per batch (for schems) = 8940 kinetic layers. Excel says I'll need 72K of Polymer, 180K of Metal, 72K of Polymer.
a. Jump over to Excel. 200 full suits 9 stacks of segments, 25 extra segments per stack (for schems) = 4425 total segments. Two layaers per segment, 10 extra layers per batch (for schems) = 8940 kinetic layers. Excel says I'll need 72K of Polymer, 180K of Metal, 72K of Polymer.
b. Jump to my MS Access database of resources. Look up best OQ+SR resources that are in inventory in appropriate quanities. Run around to my 18 factories where I store resources (one or two factories per resources type). Browse through 50 stacks of resources in each factory to find the right now (since I can't sort a list of resources by resource name). Grab all the stacks I need. Update resource database to lower quanities after removing resources.
c. Go back to workshop make schematics. Layers will require 12 batches (2 per helm, chest, and legs, one for each other peice). Craft until I have a good success for each schematic. Name each schematic by the factory # it will go into and the segment it will ultiamtely go into.
d. Walk to each of the 12 factories. Put schematic in factory. Open input hopper with mouse. Open Inventory. Split off the proper quanities of each of the 3 ingrediants (refer to excel for quantities). Drag three new stacks from inventory to input hoper. Start factory. /StructureStatus (scroll down with mouse since this window won't remember any resizing properties) to see how much power is in factory. /AddPower to bump power up to proper level (say 5000 units). Make a note to suggest a /AddPowerTo 5000 command to save me a step. Repeat for next 11 factories.
e. Get a drink. Come back and double click on each factory to insure that all factories are running. Visual confirm schematic name in every factory and that at least one layer has been made. Hope I put the right quanity of ingrediants in each factory. Note that each layer will take 160 secs to cook. The biggest stack is 860 layers. Calcualte that layers will be done in 39 hours.
Step 2: Segments (about 4 hours of play time) 2 days after step 1.
a. Jump over to Excel. 4425 total segments, I'll need 72K of Colat, 37K of Kiirium, 24K of Polysteel Copper.
b. Jump to my MS Access database of resources. Look up best OQ+SR resources that are in inventory in appropriate quanities. Run around to my 18 factories where I store resources (one or two factories per resources type). Browse through 50 stacks of resources in each factory to find the right now (since I can't sort a list of resources by resource name, but I'm not bitter). Grab all the stacks I need. Update resource database to lower quanities after removing resources. On my server the Kiirium and Polysteel I choose are each over 6 months old, the Colat is about 2 months old. Observe a moment of silence for all the new smiths that don't have these resources.
c. Run to each factory, grab a stack of 10 layers from output hopper of all 12 factories. Thank the maker that I have about the quantity of layers in the factory I tried to cook.
d. Go back to workshop make schematics. Segments will require 9 batches. I'll also need to run 3 batches of Synthcloth (because I need exactly 2000 cloths but will need some extras for schematics), and 2 batches of Reinforced Fiberplast. Pat myself on the back for having the required tailor skills and a building full of junk resources to use in tailor components. Make sure to always use the right named layers in the proper schematic. Craft until I have a good success for each schematic. Name each schematic by the factory # it will go into and the armor peice it will ultiamtely go into. 9 schematics named for peices of armor. Synth 1-3, ReInforced 1-2. 14 Factories required.
e. Walk to each of the 14 factories. Put schematic in factory. Open input hopper with mouse. Open Inventory. Split off the proper quanities of each of the 3 ingrediants (refer to excel for quantities). Drag three new stacks from inventory to input hoper. Open Output hopper, drag all the layers from the output hopper to the input hopper. Walk to factories 10-12 and use the extra mouse button mapped to double click to empty the output hoppers, carry all layers to Factories 1-3 to put in input hoppers, make 3 trips to do so (thanks 1000 unit max on schematics). Note that the double-clicking to take crates out of input often takes one item out of crate, so I have to drag the crate of 24 and the extra item to the input hopper. Curse because all the layers won't fit in input hopper! Take some stored resources out of each input hopper and place somewhere else temporarily. Curse my storage situation. Start factory. /StructureStatus (scroll down with mouse since this window won't remember any resizing properties) to see how much power is in factory. /AddPower to bump power up to proper level (say 5000 units). Make another note to suggest a /AddPowerTo 5000 command to save me a step. Repeat for next 13 factories.
f. Get a drink. Come back and double click on each factory to insure that all factories are running. Visual confirm schematic name in every factory and that at least one segment has been made. Hope I put the right quanity of ingrediants in each factory. Note that each segment will take 240 secs to cook. The biggest stack is 825 layers. Calcualte that layers will be done in 55 hours.
Step 3: Armor Peices (about 5 hours of play time) 3 days after step 2.
a. Jump over to Excel. 9 peices of armor, 200 each, I'll need 104K of Intrusive Ore, 104K of Solid Petro Fuel, 53K of Naboo FiberPlast, 61K of Aluminum, 44K of Berylious Copper. 42K of Wooly Hide. Observe a moment of silence for the better AL I used to have and the 1% of resistance I lost when it ran out. Get nervous about my dwindling supply of Berylious Copper. Pat Myself on the back for having a 42K stack of Wooly hide laying around with an OQ+SR > 1600.
b. Jump to my MS Access database of resources. Look up best OQ+SR resources that are in inventory in appropriate quanities. Run around to my 18 factories where I store resources (one or two factories per resources type). Browse through 50 stacks of resources in each factory to find the right now (since I can't sort a list of resources by resource name, get a little bitter). Grab all the stacks I need. Update resource database to lower quanities after removing resources.
c. Run to each factory, grab a stack of 25 segments from output hopper of all 14 factories. Note that I screwed up at least one batch of segments by having wrong quanities or something. Break coffee mug. Fix problem and move on.
d. Go back to workshop make schematics. Armor will require 9 factories. Make sure to always use the right named segments, Synth Cloth, and ReInforced Fiber in the proper schematics. Craft until I have a good success for each schematic. Name each schematic by the factory # it will go into and the armor peice it will ultiamtely make. Pat myself on the back for having done a run of 1000 backpacks last week so I don't have to start cooking backpacks to put the armor in.
e. Walk to each of the 9 factories. Put schematic in factory. Open input hopper with mouse. Open Inventory. Split off the proper quanities of each of the 6 ingrediants (refer to excel for quantities). Drag six new stacks from inventory to input hoper. Open Output hopper, drag all the segments from the output hopper to the input hopper. Walk to factories 10-14 and empty the output hoppers, carry all the tailor subs to Factories 1-9 to put in input hoppers, make 5 round trips to do so. Curse because all the tailor subs won't fit in input hopper! Take some stored resources out of each input hopper and place somewhere else temporarily. Curse my storage situation. Start factory. /StructureStatus (scroll down with mouse since this window won't remember any resizing properties) to see how much power is in factory. /AddPower to bump power up to proper level (say 5000 units). Get mad at myself for not remembering to suggest a /AddPowerTo 5000 command to save me a step. Repeat for next 9 factories.
f. Get a drink. Come back and double click on each factory to insure that all factories are running. Visual confirm schematic name in every factory and that at least one peice of armor has been made. Hope I put the right quanity of ingrediants in each factory. Don't bother calcualting how long whole batch will take to cook, plan on grabbing first crates of 25 out of factories in about 4 hours to put on vendor. Pray I didn't mess up.
Step 4: Stock Vendor (about 1 hour of play time) 4 hours after step 3.
a. Visit each factory and grab a crate of 25 armor peices. Grab a crate of 25 backpacks. Thank the devs for giving me a (undocumented) way to open the output hopper and grab stuff out without stopping the factory.
b. Open excel, type the ham for each of the 9 peices. Total it up.
c. Open Notepad, write a description for the full suits of FeatherWeight Kinetic Comp. Explain HAM requirements in description.
d. Put a sample set of new batch next to my vendor. Thank the devs for letting me not have to worry about the comp color.
e. Completely empty my inventory except for the 10 crates (9 peices of armor and backpakcs). Use the extra mouse button mapped to double click to take one of everything out of crates. Repeat 4 more times, so I have 5 sets unpacked. Drag 9 peices into each backpack. Hope I don't shuttle any armor and gives 2 of something to the same pack. Open /notepad, copy name of armor into clipboard. Paste name of armor to each of the 5 backpacks.
f. Open Notepad. Copy description of armor to clipboard. Open vendor, sell backpacks, type price, paste description into each pack. Repeat entire process 4 more times to upload 25 full suits to vendor.
g. Bask in the glow of victory knowing that I have vendor well stocked and plenty more armor cooking in factories. Try not to think about the batch of Kinitic layered ubese I need to start as soon as factories are done. Make a note to get more than 18 factories so I can get wookie armor and PSG's in the rotation more frequently.
Step 4: Other chores during downtime.
All of these steps will be substantially slowed by well intentioned customers sending me tells (about 25 per hour):
<Customer> Have time to do a repair for me?
<Sandxor> Sure, meet me by my tent.
<Customer> Have any Ubese in Stock?
<Sandxor> Yep, should be plenty on my vendor.
<Customer> Can you send me the wp?
<Sandxor> Sure.
Sort Mail by name to find my e-mail to self with wp in it, forward to customer.
<Customer> Have any 80% kinetic cop in Stock?
<Sandxor> Sorry I don't, I'm cooking some now, it should be ready in five days.
<Customer> What's your best armor?
<Sandxor> It depends on what you use it for, but my most expensive armor is 3 layered stun composite with all 9 peices pre-sliced for effect. It's very heavy (requires lots of buffs) but it's very popular for PvP.
<Customer> Can I have a set for free?
<Sandxor> No, but thanks for asking.
<Customer> Do you do Padded Armor
<Sandxor> I'm sorry at this time I'm unable to accept custom orders and I don't normally make Padded Armor.
<Customer> Do you know who does?
<Sandxor> Sure, [insert apprentice AS name here] does, and she's great!
<Customer>I have the Endorain wood you asked me to gather, where can I meet you?
<Sandxor>Thanks very much! Can you just offer it to my vendor, I'm in the middle of a crafting project.
<Customer> Sure, but I was hoping to get the money right away, I want to buy a krayt weapon.
<Sandxor> Sure, I'll buy it from the vendor right now.
I'll also have some basic crafting to run AUKS, Armor Repair Kits, Backpacks.
Every week I'll put together a list of resources that have spawned that I'll need. I send out an e-mail to my 250 suppliers telling them what I need and what I'd like to pay.
Every 2-3 weeks I'll send an e-mail to our 3000 customers with an update on our inventory.
Every day I'll update our website with the resources I'm buying and the inventory on my vendor.
I'll need to restock vendor at least once a day. I'll need to buy resources from my vendor at least once a day.
At least once a week, I'll need to file all the purchased resoruces into my factories and log them in my MS Access database (about 4-5 hours of play time).
Every day I'll do a /mailsave, delete all the e-mails from Auctioneer. Answer any personal e-mails and save the rest to go through once a week.
About once a week, I'll respond to all the e-mails (about 500-1000).
DirthNader
Sat Jun 05, 2004 11:34 pm
#2
Holy **edit** bro, are you the only armorsmith on Scylla? I'm one of about a dozen armorsmiths on Shadowfire who can put out the absolute best stuff the server has to offer, and I don't think any of us move that much armor, not by a mile.
Message Edited by DirthNader on 06-05-2004 11:36 PM
XJonoX
Sun Jun 06, 2004 2:16 am
#3
Bloody hell !, 
Thats some stock movement. it takes me a month to shift 200 sets of composite,
and customers wonder why it costs so much to craft the best armour. Your post shows just how complicated and time consuming it is to craft composite in batches.
storage is a big problem, it really does need looking at, and if only there was a way of listing the minerals in an order of some sort.
I live in hope 
Krallic
Sun Jun 06, 2004 5:59 am
#4
I have to say that this really sums up most of our professions problems in one swoop! A very good job you put in here. Also impressed by the number of items you move.
Istin
Sun Jun 06, 2004 10:46 am
#5
Well, with a 3000 customer database, not hard to see 200 suitsgoing that fast.
Dang dude, how much free time do you have in RL?
On a side note....I shudder to think of how much money you have.
Drummerboychris
Sun Jun 06, 2004 12:03 pm
#6
ya.. you sure make a lot of armor 
Took me a good 2 months to move 200 suits 
Congrats on a very sucessful business, now get some rest
Took me a good 2 months to move 200 suits Congrats on a very sucessful business, now get some rest
sandxor-scylla
Sun Jun 06, 2004 2:35 pm
#7
So some game mechanic suggestions to make the life of an armorsmith more manageable:
Resource Management:
Pipe Dreams (but probably a lot of work for devs):
Warehouse structure - How about a dedicated structure for storing resources. You can have different versions for different resource types (organic and inorganic) for example. These structures would exclusively hold raw resources, and would aggregate all resources of the same name (even if there are more than 100,000). It would be great if this structure had the effect of giving more storage to us, by say allowing 100 named resources (in any quantity) to be stored in 1 lot structure. But I'd settle for it aggregating stacks even if it didn't give me more storage, i.e. every one lot structure can hold 10,000,000 units of resources. Let me aggregate lots, so I can put in 9 lots and get a 90,000,000 unit warehouse. Give me a column in the warehouse inventory for resource name so I can see them and sort by them. Even better give me a calculated field, that I set to show OQ+SR or whatever. How about a /exportwarehouse command that stores the contents of the warehouse to cvs or xml text file (including all resource attributes), so I do my fancier resource management off-line without all the data entry I do now.
Warehouse structure - How about a dedicated structure for storing resources. You can have different versions for different resource types (organic and inorganic) for example. These structures would exclusively hold raw resources, and would aggregate all resources of the same name (even if there are more than 100,000). It would be great if this structure had the effect of giving more storage to us, by say allowing 100 named resources (in any quantity) to be stored in 1 lot structure. But I'd settle for it aggregating stacks even if it didn't give me more storage, i.e. every one lot structure can hold 10,000,000 units of resources. Let me aggregate lots, so I can put in 9 lots and get a 90,000,000 unit warehouse. Give me a column in the warehouse inventory for resource name so I can see them and sort by them. Even better give me a calculated field, that I set to show OQ+SR or whatever. How about a /exportwarehouse command that stores the contents of the warehouse to cvs or xml text file (including all resource attributes), so I do my fancier resource management off-line without all the data entry I do now.
Binary Loader Droids - Once you have a well organized storage area for resources, you can now add a factory friend droid. Attach the droid to a particular Warehouse structure, go to a factory put in a schematic, tell droid quantity you of items you want to make from schematic, and the droid will grab the proper amount of the named resources on the schematic from your warehouse and load them in the factory.
Stuff that seems realistic:
New sortable field in inventory that shows names of resources. Now I can sort by name and find the particular resource I want without examining 50 separate stacks.
New sortable field in inventory that shows names of resources. Now I can sort by name and find the particular resource I want without examining 50 separate stacks.
/ExportInventory command dumps the inventory data (including resource attributes) to a cvs or xml text file for use outside of SWG.
Raise resource stack size from 100K to 1Mil. I know you've dismissed this before, but it's a super easy way to lighten the server loads and get much of the functionality of the Warehouse suggestion above. Please reconsider.
Raise the crate size for sub-components from 25-50 to 1000. At least let me drag all the subcomponents from one factory to the other in one trip.
Factory Management:
Add in-game calculator, or calculator function to key areas. The ability to specify a quantity to manufacturer to the factory so the "Show resources required" option can show the total amount of resources required to do a run (or add it to the datapad schematic view). This would also be a great feature in the trade window so when someone offers you 28,673 units of wooly hide, that you've promised to pay 25 cpu for, you can let the computer do the math
Add a calculate/validate production function to factories. Report what the factory will produce and when it will be done based on current schematic, loaded resources, maintenance, and power loaded. This would let us catch mistakes in our setup 3 days earlier!
Add a button to move all items from the output hopper to the input hopper.
If factory has to be stopped in the middle of a run and then restarted, don't cause it to waste resources so that the final run ends up short, as happens now.
Give keyboard commands for all factory function /OpenInput /OpenOutput etc..
Give more useful commands for adding power and maintenance. /AddPowerTo XXXX to put in as much power as needed to reach XXXX. /PayMaintenceTo XXXX.
Armor Handling:
We need a better way to sell full suits of armor than the manual loading of backpacks. As you've already discovered, the backpack requires too much trust on the part of the customer anyway. How about a special ArmorLocker container. Let an armor smith fabricate ArmorLockers and manual drag a full suit into the locker. The locker would visibly tell customers it was complete (make bandoliers, belts, etc... optional, or make them not part of the locker). Also allow smiths to throw a crate of 25 Armor lockers, and a crate of all 9 armor pieces into a factory, and have the factory put all the items in the suit (please don't make this take 240 secs per suit). The ArmorLockers should give customers the ability to view the individual stats of each piece of armor, and also see the aggregate HAM of the entire suit.
Armor Customization:
Given all that's necessary to keep vendors stocked, very few long term Master Armorsmiths even make custom orders for unknown/new customers. It's just too much work right now, and after the combat balance (when more flavors are armor are popular) it's going to be far worse.
Customizations need to be applied to armor at the end of the process not the beginning. Allow a smith to drag layers and enhancements to completed armor, as long as the armor is still at 100% durability, keeping same limits on quantity and type as you have now. This would allow all smiths to stock some generic sets and tweak it out to customer specifications in a reasonable amount of time.
Add die kits for armor coloring after armor has been fabricated (or allow it all be user selectable as current Comp).
Summary
Of all of these, the most important is the Armor Customization. All the other categories effect the customer experience for ArmorSmiths (and maybe some other crafting professions). The customization has a dramatic effect on all Armor Users! If the rebalance is successful in making more armor types and more variations of armor appealing (which is a great thing), and you don't create some way for the servers smiths to fulfill that demand, you will have a lot of unhappy players!
shac1234
Sun Jun 06, 2004 5:27 pm
#8
Excel and Access? That sounds like real work .
I am going up armorsmith now, what you are describing does not sound like fun to me. Is it mostly for the money or is it really fun to put that much effort into it?
sandxor-scylla
Sun Jun 06, 2004 5:59 pm
#9
lol. It's neither fun nor is it for the money. It's more of an addiction at this point. 
ju-bei
Sun Jun 06, 2004 9:06 pm
#10
good lord
must have taken a while to get to that point. im kind of in awe at the wholeAS profession at the moment. ive been master for about 2 weeks now, and i have yet to make a single piece of armor as of yet.
ive spent about 15 hours ingame time, just searching for resources, and i just tonight set up my first factory for layers. then when i set it up, i come to find it takes 160 seconds per layer. wasnt too happy when i saw that
so between that, segments, and the many different pieces i have to make just to make a single piece of armor, it looks like it will be another 2-3 weeks before i even put out my first piece of plain jane kinetic composite. thats if all the chips fall right.
currently, im in over 5 mill in resources. which may be a drop in the bucket to most of you, but to me (just coming back to the game) its about every cent i had. and on top of that, i still need 3 more types of resources, which, of course, are the highest amounted ones for the schematics. ie - intrusive ore, known solid petro, and beyrllius copper.
seeing as i need at least 200k of each intrusive ore, and known solid petro, it looks like it may take even longer than i think. could be up to 6-8 weeks before my first completed piece comes out of a factory. and then on top of that, these are my first pieces, so they could all end up being a pile of crap 
going to be a long month...
sandxor-scylla
Mon Jun 07, 2004 6:56 am
#12
Here's an idea that came from combining a few of my origonal suggestions... what about a /loadfactory ### command. It would look at the current schematic, and grab the proper quantities of resources out of you inventory to make ### number of items. Ideally if you only had some of the ingrediants in inventory, it would take the ones you did have and give you an error message (because for runs with sub-components often not all the ingrediants would fit in inventory at one time). It would be even cooler if the command make sure you had enough maintenence and power and well.
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