Armorsmith Archive
Thread: Ideas thread: Help our correspondent and developers find a solution.
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NiBorg
Thu Apr 07, 2005 7:02 pm
#1
I know there is a thread already with many outcries about the new requirements for armor crafting and how it will affect us all but I think we need to come up with some workable solutions to this issue.
Disclaimer: I have not seen the new schematics in game yet for myself but will tonight once I get home so I will keep quiet on this till I know more.
Please only post constructive ideas and not flames like “this sucks” as I’m sure we all wish to find a proper solution to our concerns.
Disclaimer: I have not seen the new schematics in game yet for myself but will tonight once I get home so I will keep quiet on this till I know more.
Please only post constructive ideas and not flames like “this sucks” as I’m sure we all wish to find a proper solution to our concerns.
Meplorium
Fri Apr 08, 2005 10:14 am
#2
This will be like armor certs, what's done is done. They aren't interested in our feed back or that we don't like this or that. They are interested in making SWG a companion clone to EQ2 so both games can go head to head against the single game WoW. I'm thinking WoW wins.
Kelloch
Fri Apr 08, 2005 10:23 am
#3
They seem to be asking for feedback on the mechanics of the system they put in place, but nothing about concepts. I wish we'd see discussions on
- armor certifications (why crafters get the shaft)
- why you can't equip armor and weapons you aren't certified for instead of having reduced ability if you do
- why crafting was removed from docs
I'm sure there are a lot more questions such as these that cross professions, I just haven't had time to read all the CU posts throughout the forums. But I wish I'd see Devs responding to questions about concepts along with the mechanics they put in place. I care less about the new icons than I do the armor certifications.
- armor certifications (why crafters get the shaft)
- why you can't equip armor and weapons you aren't certified for instead of having reduced ability if you do
- why crafting was removed from docs
I'm sure there are a lot more questions such as these that cross professions, I just haven't had time to read all the CU posts throughout the forums. But I wish I'd see Devs responding to questions about concepts along with the mechanics they put in place. I care less about the new icons than I do the armor certifications.
DBinky
Fri Apr 08, 2005 2:04 pm
#4
NiBorg wrote:
I know there is a thread already with many outcries about the new requirements for armor crafting and how it will affect us all but I think we need to come up with some workable solutions to this issue.
Disclaimer: I have not seen the new schematics in game yet for myself but will tonight once I get home so I will keep quiet on this till I know more.
Please only post constructive ideas and not flames like “this sucks” as I’m sure we all wish to find a proper solution to our concerns.
Constructive ideas? HA! I'd like to see the dev's come up with some constructive ideas... everything they've put forward so far is rather destructive to the AS profession.
1 - Fix Armor Certs - Magical force fields that keep people from wearing pieces of plastic and metal is not canon and is not sensible. Did Luke and Han have certs to wear Trooper Armor? Nope. How about Obi Wan when he wore ArcT Trooper armor (in Clone Wars, new canon)? Probably Not. Did the Assassin (bounty hunter), named Zed, hired by Jengo Fett in AOTC wear Mabari (a recon armor)? Yes. Inappropriate armors (ones for which a player is not certed) should be wearable at extreme debuffs or something.
2 - Fix Experimentation - Single line experimentation makes it possible to have a "perfect set" of armor. The need for choices (light or tough, but not both) is part of what makes the profession great. With 2 lines, we would still get a perfect on 1 line, and half way up the other. Here's what I think should be done for experimentation: 1 line for regular resists, 1 line for elemental resists, and 1 line for debuff. Yes, this makes armor lower quality over-all, but adds variety and challenge to the game for crafters and fighters alike! Want to spam your specials? Get low debuff armor and be prepared to take damage. Want to be safe? Get high resist armor and be prepared to stand there and autoattack.
3 - Make Gloves & Boots Useful - Currently, these aren't valid hit locations, so why would we invest resources and time into making them at all? If this system goes live, you'll see players running around looking like they were born in the Ozark Mountains in Arkansas! Look maw, I got me some high waters 'n no boots! But ooohhh, having boots and gloves in the game isn't fair to Trandos and Wookies? Fine... give them some level of "innate armor" on their hands and feet that approximates the armor they're certed to wear. You *know* you could do it. That way, the game won't look like a Gap commercial with everyone wearing Capri pants.
4 - Fix Resources Stat Requirements - Easy. Mal, OQ, SR. No problem. rebalance the percentages, if you must, but leave the formula alone. Too many people have too much money and effort involved with these stats to make such a dramatic change. (besides, DR and UT? are you serious?)
How about it? constructive?
Dulita
darmokVtS
Fri Apr 08, 2005 2:18 pm
#5
DBinky wrote:
Did Luke and Han have certs to wear Trooper Armor? Nope. How about Obi Wan when he wore ArcT Trooper armor (in Clone Wars, new canon)? Probably Not. Did the Assassin (bounty hunter), named Zed, hired by Jengo Fett in AOTC wear Mabari (a recon armor)?
Zed was quite obviously BH/Rifleman, Han well.. master smuggler, master pistols, novice squadleader
DBinky
Fri Apr 08, 2005 2:26 pm
#6
darmokVtS wrote:
DBinky wrote:
Did Luke and Han have certs to wear Trooper Armor? Nope. How about Obi Wan when he wore ArcT Trooper armor (in Clone Wars, new canon)? Probably Not. Did the Assassin (bounty hunter), named Zed, hired by Jengo Fett in AOTC wear Mabari (a recon armor)?
Zed was quite obviously BH/Rifleman, Han well.. master smuggler, master pistols, novice squadleader
LMAO @ Han as SquadLeader!
Really, though, this kind of mitigation doesn't help us get the fixes we want, because the devs seem so committed to these choices that they're looking for excuses to justify their designs. I also noticed that you didn't have an answer for Obi Wan wearing Battle Armor...
What, then, about Lando? In ESB, he's wearing Tantel (a battle armor) at Jabba's palace. I don't see a smuggler/pistoleer/politician having battle armor anywhere...
Dulita
darmokVtS
Fri Apr 08, 2005 3:09 pm
#7
DBinky wrote:
I also noticed that you didn't have an answer for Obi Wan wearing Battle Armor...
"General Kenobi"... one might think a General has some experience as squad leader :-).
DBinky wrote:
but even if you do bend the classes around to give Luke and Han Battle armor, they certainly weren't certed to wear IMPERIAL armor.
Han Solo used to be imperial captain before he went smuggler if I recall right
. Luke... well .. no clue :-).
DBinky wrote:
What, then, about Lando? In ESB, he's wearing Tantel (a battle armor) at Jabba's palace.
He also wields a Long Vibro Axe in those scense, not very good with tho as we see later, maybe novice pikeman
?(and to stop the joking, I do understand reasons for certed armor and as such consider this a non-issue even tho I shudder at the idea that one of my post-curb templates gets to chose between three sets of at least partly extreme uglyness (battle armor :-)) if I don't feel like wearing faction armor with her
.Message Edited by darmokVtS on 04-09-2005 12:15 AM
Neiscius
Fri Apr 08, 2005 3:13 pm
#8
My fix ideas?
Get rid of certs.
Drop the organic requirements on Padded and Chitin. Up the base eff on Padded just a little bit so it can be crafted to be "light Composite".
Up the eff on Mabari so it can be a "light Chitin" or a "light Padded" depending on how it was crafted.
Go back to the 3 bar experimenting so my idea on mabari is possible.
Lower the resources used along the way (layers/segments/cores) it's too much for one suit.
Katosan
Fri Apr 08, 2005 4:33 pm
#10
I will reserve my constuctive suggestions until after I've seen what they do to chef, droid eng, and be
After seeing what has just been done to armorsmiths, I'm apprehensive about the other three.
I can tell you this about armorsmith:
1) reverse the change to the stat requirements for armorsmith resources (changing the stat requirements like they have been changed renders the resources gathered, not only by the smiths, but by resource miners, virtually useless)
2) change the named resources to the new armors and not to the cores (requiring named resources that haven't spawned in a while forces people to use the "veteran" rewards you just handed out... or was this the plan? Allow the smiths to use what they already have.)
3) reduce the resource requirements down to reasonable levels (you cannot tell me that one chest plate takes 500+ resources tocraft.."all of the sudden"... when it took 10% of that "yesterday")
4) Allow people to wear what armor they want... change the penalties under these armors to reflect the "cert" that you wanted to implement.
Those are what come to mind right now
Wallid
Fri Apr 08, 2005 10:24 pm
#12
Neiscius wrote:My fix ideas?Get rid of certs.Drop the organic requirements on Padded and Chitin. Up the base eff on Padded just a little bit so it can be crafted to be "light Composite".Up the eff on Mabari so it can be a "light Chitin" or a "light Padded" depending on how it was crafted.Go back to the 3 bar experimenting so my idea on mabari is possible.Lower the resources used along the way (layers/segments/cores) it's too much for one suit.
I'd put kin on padded and ubese for speicals, and mabari and chitin be energy or elect/ blast (either one). Bone diffently Kin. Keep some of the organic on the armors, ( like they are now, but with reason. Chitin is by RPG standards a plate armor. thus more metal then hide. padded, ubese, give away, you got your hide. bone a half and half. mabari hmm... a half and halfer too.
Keep experiement where it is with the 3 bar system, makes things more challanging then that one bar system I've been hearing about.
Go back to the drawing board for stats on protects. the percent method worked the best. IF your going to do numbers, go the EQ (not EQ2, just EQ 1) way. where the armors had modifiers. course with the current system, would call for an over hall of system it self. A speical protection kin 3651.752 carry the 2 (Ya I know exageration, but making a point). makes about as much sence as not being able to harvest water from a lake.
OH! OH! OH!
I GOT THE BEST ONE! :d
HA HAHA!!
THE ability to fix armor with a better then norm success. right now AS repair armor just like the average combatant. you'd think sence we can create the stuff, we could fix it very well. Ironicly, I've had people that think that too.
justapilgrim
Fri Apr 08, 2005 10:35 pm
#13
here is a solution one of my resource issues:
as proposed the amount of resources required to make armor is going way up, 86% up for layers alone (see my other thread)
currently here is what is is on live
20 metal, 8 polymer, 8 known inert gas, 5 low grade ore (41 total)
here is what it is on TC5
20 ferrous metal, 12 polymer, 10 plexite amorphous gemstone, 14 alantium carbonate ore (56 total)
Resource requirements will be up 36% per layer and if you include a 4th layer they are up 86%
I really so no reason at all whatsoever to change the resource requirements other than to help out the new smith (that also doesnt have them saved up).
I can kind of see why the devs would want to help out the new players, but if the layer requirements (and we don't even know what the new layers will suck up) increase 86% it will drive up prices and I looks like the devs have ben trying to get away from this.
Someone said that they may be doing this because some of the resources like alantium carbonate most likely has caps and the devs can keep armor from getting too out of control if they use capped resources
IF that is the case, here is what I propose for energy layers
10ferrous metal,6 polymer,5 plexite amorphous gemstone, 5alantium carbonate ore (28 total)
this way it is the same ratios as proposed before, but with lower resource requirements smiths can keep costs down and that helps everyone
but........just keeping the energy layers (and other layers that are currrently in live) like they are now, that is even better. Save the named resources for the new layers
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