Armorsmith Archive

Thread: CURB Armor experimentation oversimplified

Ajo79
Fri Apr 08, 2005 1:21 pm
#40

I think the current system to craft armor is very fine. I don't see any need tomodify it. Simplifing the system is not the way to go. It should be an art to make good armor.


Can I please have my 20 millions back I spent on Armor experimentation tapes back?



Ajo Nibor | Ryler Erlovski | Rofy Vrell
Tic Nibor | Jovy Rellno | Inyra D'Forge & Li'wyn Daine
Eclipse - Citizen of Mos Mosel

Ryche_Mykola
Fri Apr 08, 2005 1:21 pm
#41



xtxShifter wrote:
Lazy armorsmiths.

Try playing SW.



I already am. AS is by far much harder.

What this will do is make an "artifical" glut in supply, there is no way for us to keep up in demand. Which is going to make prices skyrocket.

All us 12 point Masters that make bank started out at one time with little to no sales and with 10 points. But guess what? We worked hard, got our store/mall known, got the absolute best resources, made sure we always have a huge selection of goods, and always help answer questions etc........ THATS HOW WE GOT SUCCESSFUL!
These people saying things "to level the playing field between 10 and 12 pointers". It comes down to laziness and people expecting to have things handed to them in game and do no work.


We are reduced to being Glorified Power Up Crafters Now.



Ryche Mykola
Outer Rim Collective (ORC) High Council


Ariakus Mykola
Outer Rim Collective Master Rifleman
Cancelled accounts for Wow
Keeper32
Fri Apr 08, 2005 1:22 pm
#42


September 9th, 2003.


That's the day I mastered Armorsmith, and to this day it is still one of the greatest moments I've ever had in this game.


After three months and two days of learning how the profession works, getting resources and seeing what could be made with what, how good, was it usefull to people, making contacts, getting my first customer, striving to keep more than 25k in my backaccount.


And I loved every... single... second of it. For the first almost6 months of play not a single day went past where I did not play for at least about an hour (My first day without SWG was Dec. 26th 2003)


I chose Armorsmithing before the game came out, because it sounded inticing, challenging and most importantly fun. It was greater than I had ever dreamed once I had started down the path. The options to what you could do seemed limitless. Change this, and change that. Each possibility leaving its own rewards and downsides. Should I make it light so I don't kill myself as fast (As a carbineer this was an issue) or should it give more protection but I will have to use some other tactics.


This for me was the greatest thing about the profession.

And subsequently if this change goes live I will be forced to quit, and you cannot imagine how much it actually physically pains me to write that. You are taking away the one thing that made this profession fun. The challenge of it.


Any othercrafting profession (Aside from WS) Iwould consider to be simple. No other profession has our intricasies, our little tidbits that you need to know to do good. You can't just start on the profession and within five minutes know everything there is to it (Unless you have a teacher).


I don't know what to say anymore... You are killing the one profession in this game that I respected the most, loved the most and treasured every moment of... Please... Don't do this to us.

Message Edited by Keeper32 on 04-08-2005 10:40 PM



Hurgis & Haldi Balthezan - HB Armouries.
Elder 12pt Armorsmith, R.I.S Certified.
Supplying Weaponry and Armor to a galaxy in need.
Keuller
Fri Apr 08, 2005 1:23 pm
#43


Blixtev wrote:


Quizz wrote:
Boy of Boy....you are officially a full time crafter now and will not have any time to do anything else.
Can anyone say "full-time hand-crafter"



Don't you think that "top armor" that the player who wants to obtain all the different widgets should be handcrafted? You can still pump out runs and runs of armor to keep up with mass demands. However as I was chatting with the folks in the Armor smith PA on Test yesterday, the goal is to use the factories to mass produce cores and then drop the cores into appearances on demand.

Please give some feedback on the amount of time to produce a crate of cores on test, I'd really like to know if the process is now significantly longer.




Balancing special and base and HAM was the fun, the challenge of armorsmithing. When I got an extra 1% base in my stun over the rest of my server by pushing 1 point extra into base (while not losing any stun) it was a moment of victory. My 12 points were what let me make decent stun, my perhaps foolish devotion got me the 12pts of amazing successes I needed and my maniacal desire to make "the best" had me experimenting long into the night to find the right balance of points to grab that extra 1%.

Now I can master AS, toss all my (10) points into 1 line and be done with it. Yeah...Umm, that sucks. It's the equivalent of having a combat profession spam 1 attack, all the time, for every mob, with the same weapon. Isn't that something you were trying to do away with in the CURB?

I'm really, honestly, trying to be civil here, but about half the words I type I have to delete because they're either personal insults, threats, or extremely vulgar. Please, help me maintain my sanity, I'm begging you to not destroy armor crafting as we know it, as one of the toughest (and most rewarding) crafting professions in the game.



Keuller - Master Rifleman
Ais - Master Armorsmith
Armor/Loot Shop at 6460 4330 Tatooine
Grendelwyf
Fri Apr 08, 2005 1:27 pm
#44


this is f@cking ridiculous. my resources are becoming worthless, my 12 experimentation points are now worthless, and the one thing that has kept me in this game (crafting) has been turned into something that takes absolutely no skill whatsoever.


loots should not make for good armor. the quality of a loot you obtain is strictly luck, and requires no skill whatsoever. the crafting of the armor is what should take skill, but you are removing that element so that my damn grandmother can sit down and craft the same armor that i can, even though i've spent the past year and a half perfecting my profession.


something better change before this goes live or the whole AS community is gonna be one pissed off group of people.




Buliwyf - Master Rifleman/Master CM
Hrungnir - Master Armorsmith(+125 Exp/+122 Assembly)
Valhalla Armory Coronet, Corellia (540, -5212)
"I gotta have my {VA}"
UmmonPrime
Fri Apr 08, 2005 1:28 pm
#45






xtxShifter wrote:
Lazy armorsmiths.

Try playing SW.





I'm a SW also.....



Elood- Trader - Retired AS/SW

Elood'- Jedi- I know, I suck. Bite me

Dark Sword, Naboo 6932 2054 Loots


Quizz
Fri Apr 08, 2005 1:28 pm
#46






Blixtev wrote:






Quizz wrote:

Boy of Boy....you are officially a full time crafter now and will not have any time to do anything else.


Can anyone say "full-time hand-crafter"







Don't you think that "top armor" that the player who wants to obtain all the different widgets should be handcrafted? You can still pump out runs and runs of armor to keep up with mass demands. However as I was chatting with the folks in the Armor smith PA on Test yesterday, the goal is to use the factories to mass produce cores and then drop the cores into appearances on demand.


Please give some feedback on the amount of time to produce a crate of cores on test, I'd really like to know if the process is now significantly longer.








will do, but i gave up grinding when the server kept going down every 5 minutes. right now the crafting process and leveling seems to be bug free so why not open up the blue frogs so we can get master AS and start tinkering with factory runs andcomponent combinations. this is where you'll start to get a lot of feedback.



As for "Top Armor". Right now there is a shortage of crafters, i was barely keeping up with demand b4, now i'm going to hampered with /tells for custom armor. Its not the same as a weaponsmith. Most custom orders they get are for one weapon for a particular customer. We have to make 7 pieces of armor for that one customer. That, along with more time setting up harveys and collecting more hides makes for a very dull day.I dont expect a lot of help from Rangers either, heard they're not getting much perks from being a ranger so u can count on less of them.



Making an AS more dependant on other professions is not the way to go.



And for combat balance there is going to be more unbalance then b4. we have weapon smiths that have 2 years of collecting resources against an armorsmith who has to start from scratch. Hell...not even the resources for layers are even the same as Pre-CU. So what u got is uber weapons against crappy armor which makes for one short PvP batlle. The problem b4 seems to be uber DOT weapons and now it will be uber weapons against crappy armor. Back to square one.


If i'm coming off a little strong, i'm sorry, but i really dont think this is what most AS's want







Quizz

4 ACCOUNTS cancelled
Zenath
Fri Apr 08, 2005 1:32 pm
#47

How exactly are they messing up AS? It seems to me they just added an extra level of custmoization so the professions can more easily tailor itself to the demands of other players.

Is there really nothing new in the system to challenge your crafting potential? I imagine you'll still have to try to get high quality stats on armor.


Hinderance and encumbrance are 2 different things... read and test... Encumbrance reduces HAM and those regen. rates... Hinderance reduces speed and accuracy.

If your really going to quit over something like this your just being foolish.
Kryonastus
Fri Apr 08, 2005 1:33 pm
#48

Dear people in charge of doing really dumb things,


Wow, you guys are stupid.


I...I cant really think of anything more to say.


You just...suck at designing things. Please stop. You are the antithesis of skillful programmers. You should be ashamed.

VERY ashamed.


Please quit, and allow them to hire someone who doesnt...well, suck.





Sadly, I will not be renewing my subscription when it dies off. SWG, you have been fun, but no longer unfortunatly.
- I support returning & balancing the original combat system You can too
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So terrible, yet so hilarious...
^ This right here ^ folks is the CU^.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
glory
Fri Apr 08, 2005 1:35 pm
#49

You can have your experimentation, I want to be able to make the armor pretty.



Gloria, Lowca: Wanderhome & Test Center
9 accounts, 18 characters, ok this is a tad nutso
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Timbo1970
Fri Apr 08, 2005 1:35 pm
#50






JaekeW wrote:






Blixtev wrote:



"............ Smiths can push the envelope, however if broken loot drops ever get into the game, this should prevent players from wanting to use them because it would drive their hindrances up. This means we cannot let players experiment on this facet............."







translation......."we are not good enough to write the code needed to keep broken loot drops out of the game........and would rather take the experimentation away than write code that makesthe armor crafting challengeing yet keep it within our acceptable paramiters...."

Message Edited by JaekeW on 04-08-2005 01:15 PM





QFE!!!


This is how I read it. What was wrong with allowing experimentation on Special protections and base protection? Increasing base also increases condition of the armour, but increasing special (elementals) makes better armour, but you can't increase the base as much, or the condition. give and take like we used to have.


AS and the old BE were great to play because it took skill and knowledge to craft the best stuff, and people are right, you could have 2 great armoursmiths on a server who never made the same stuff, they made their armours in 2 unique styles, for base protection or for versatility across more protection ranges. Simplifying the game to increase the fun factor is not what SWG was about, it was about immersion and challenge, there are lots of other online games out there if all we want is "point-n-shoot" and "click here for crafting... tada, you have a new peice just like everyone else".


Re-think this please, after almost 2 years it should be obvious that we liked certain things about the old system, don't make so many people re-evaluate their interest in the game.



TimboBeka - HVTT
Timbo - Last minute Knight
Rapunzel - cancelled ASIAGO's ARMORY Cancelled
Timbo - Lothar, Timbo - Gurubashi, Dexter - Gurubashi. And if I find the kid that took Asiago on Gurubashi I'll go "Hulk" on them!
1M1Alex
Fri Apr 08, 2005 1:36 pm
#51



Keuller wrote:

Now I can master AS, toss all my (10) points into 1 line and be done with it. Yeah...Umm, that sucks. It's the equivalent of having a combat profession spam 1 attack, all the time, for every mob, with the same weapon. Isn't that something you were trying to do away with in the CURB?




QFE
This has to be one of the most retarded changes I've ever seen. You take away 7 types of damage and I lay still, you take away 3 levels of armor piercing and I lay still, you take away 2/3 of my crafting profession and you've finally made me mad. Change it back now or I promise you the only thing you'll see after this "upgrade" is a massive cancelling of accounts. And when the 10 new subscribers join because of RotW they'll be fscked, in proper SWG-dev fashion because everyone who was anyone on every server will have quit.
speardancer
Fri Apr 08, 2005 1:39 pm
#52



Blixtev wrote:


Thula wrote:
So it is finally confirmed in the CU testing, Armorsmiths have seen a creative and challenging profession being reduced to a mining operation. We now have only one line to experiment on (resistance) which means we might as well pour our resources into a black box and get the end product out, the result is given by the resources and loot.
Why does our profession have to be oversimplified? Look around the forum, you will see that the proudest moments for our members are when they managed to juggle the resources, loot and experimentation right to get that elusive high resist / 0 encumbrance piece of armor (usually RIS). Where is the challenge now?
We are not stupid, we like challenges! We like to tweak and experiment, make a small discovery in the crafting that puts us a small step ahead of our neighbor. I say “we” because I am sure there are others that share my sentiments. I am sure that there is a large group out there that enjoy AS because of the challenges it could present, and that is not a target group your Marketing Department should forget…
I can handle new resource requirements, I can handle not being able to wear my own products, I am delighted with all the new armors types. But I am afraid I will be bored to death with this system.
Please Blixtev, give us challenges, give us choices! That is what makes this a fun and interesting game. Give us the opportunity to experiment on hindrances, or some other aspect that makes a difference. And make it a real option! Before the Doc super-buffs there was a real choice and some careful balancing that had to be done during experimentation. Post CU, everyone will be wearing the new clone armors (different appearances but equal stats), that is not very interesting in the long run.
I am looking forward to your reply, respectfully yours


In the first pass of armor we had toned down much of the encumbrance to just subtract from your efficiency stats. There was a choice between encumbrance/protection until the HAM system was pulled near the middle of our internal alpha. All of a sudden even the modified encumbrance system didnt make sense after we had removed all the old stats. We deemed that if we reasonably expected most combat professions to wear armor they shouldn't have to suffer a massive loss of combat effectiveness. Hence the removal of "encumbrace".

Looking at Protection and Hindrance we see the following pattern(or should). As a smith raises the protection stats, the Base hindrance amounts will also rise. The hindrance system is a built in mechanism to keep players of the correct advancement level wearing the correct pieces of armor. This built in system prevents players from abusing any potential errant items, slicing etc. How does it do this? The combat professions are granted a series of "mitigators" if their mitigator is below the hindrance on the armor, then they suffer combat effectiveness/movement penalties for it. Smiths can push the envelope, however if broken loot drops ever get into the game, this should prevent players from wanting to use them because it would drive their hindrances up. This means we cannot let players experiment on this facet.

This leaves us with Condition and Protection and a much simplified system of armor crafting. This means a fairly straight forward crafting process. I did convert many of the old useless loot drops into a way to enhance armor, as well as modifying one of the RIS quest rewards so it would be useful on all armor, and you can see the Bio-Enhancement slot as well in there. This means much of how "good" a smith is will be judged on how they fiddle with the small add-ons you can put into the crafting. It should be a vastly easier process obtaining these as they now come in stacks.

Just wanted to give you an answer to why encumbrance was removed.






"and we had no imagination to add anything back in".... oh please. just put up some NPC vendors to sell armor then, between the loss of any 'skill' in making the armor, and the skyrocketed hide useage, that's about the only way anyone's going to be able to afford any armor.



Speardancer Master Artisian, Shipwright and 12pt Armorsmith *cancelation pending*
Garlyn, Master Tailor and 11pt Chef *Canceled, last day Apr. 24th*
Motas, Master Scout and Carbineer *Canceled, last day June 16th
*Waited 1 year for a combat fix, and all I got was this lousy T-Shirt*
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