CUEmu - Thread Posts

Vevy

Sat Apr 17, 2004 5:08 pm

To be honest with ya Dewi, I'm not gonna get into a pissing contest with ya cause there is no right or wrong answer here and I think by skipping posts in this thread, which you said you did, you're missing what is really being discussed here. You've made quite a few points that I prolly should respond to, but I think if you go back and read over everything that was said, you'd see you're really just agreeing with previous points. We're all ALREADY in agreement that 80% base is the problem. I also think you need to bury old hatchets and not makeit so personal. After all the title of the thread is not "What is wrong with Dewi's shop..."

To sum it up Iwill never agree with the "nerf it" attitude. A nerf implies taking something away without balancing it out in another area. SOE has done this repeatedly in the past and even they've recognized that it's the wrong way to approach problems with the game. The issue has to be dealt with balance, not nerfs. Otherwise it's just another bandaid solution that will eventually come undone elsewhere. They've created so many MORE issues with nerfs than they've ever fixed...IMHO

This issue is not a money issue, it never was. It's about the lack of effectiveness of other armor types. Every crafter I know, AS and WS,actually spends money just as fast asthey make it.The money is a byproduct of the process, not the engine behind it. A means to an end so to speak. That end being more crafting. I just blew 50mil on resources this week and by my standards I'm all but broke. I did that so I would have the best resources possible so I could supply my customers with the quality gear they've come to expect. If I was just in it for the money, I wouldn't spend upwards of 40cpu to get the best stuff for my players. It's not like there's anything to spend money on in this game anyway...besides more resources

To try and turn this into a money issue I think is doing the problem a great disservice because it couldn't be further from the point. To me anyway, the issue isn't the value of all the armor types or what we can sell them for, it's their actual effectiveness in battle. I personally like 80% resists, just not across the board. 80% resists are fun and that's why we all play the game. If we want realism, we have our own lives and don't need SWG. People like feeling as if they're uber and l33t...it's just gotten out of hand and everyone is pidgeon-holed into compo to get that feeling. I think having a high spread of resists offers smiths more creativity in their crafting...something that might get lost if we simply nerf compo back to 50% base. I would be more in favor of leaving compo with it's 80% base, but then adding in a big fat energy vulnerability and let half the weapons in existencetear throughthat high base. Then you're still giving players that uber feeling, but as soon as they're faced with the right weapon, they'll have to face thedownside of that uberarmor. I agree there should be pros and cons to each armor type, aside from buffs and enc, been saying that all along.

Vevy
Master Armorsmith / Master Weaponsmith

Drewpey

Sat Apr 17, 2004 6:20 pm

#41

Atrue "fix" to this problem would be to make all armor equal. There should be a maximum amount of % points allowed on a piece of armor. The closer your resources are to 1000/1000 the closer you can get to getting the full % points, and only in faction armor would you have almost complete freedom to shift % from one to another by layers, within reason.

~Anden of Starsider
~Dewi of Scylla (retired)

I want my GCW!

Vevy

Sat Apr 17, 2004 6:31 pm

#42

what would be gained though by simply normalizing all armor? what the point be of having more than one type then?

when I first started AS I just assumed each type would havea strength the others didn't...had no idea til I hit master what it was really like. Now looking back it really seems foolish the way they set it up.

Vevy
Master Armorsmith / Master Weaponsmith

Drewpey

Sat Apr 17, 2004 10:24 pm

#43

Here is an example:

say armor was limited to 160% points. Ubese for example has 5 base stats, and one special. Special can get to 80%, and then the base is split among the last few %.

Each armor has a special protection that can hit 80%.

Better armor you get (faction) the more flexibility you get to change the %, so you could make armor with two 80%, or so on and so forth.

160 points seems low, and probably is, but it would add a cap to all armor, instead of having caps for each armor like we do now.

~Anden of Starsider
~Dewi of Scylla (retired)

I want my GCW!

Imspaced

Sat Apr 17, 2004 11:05 pm

#44

I am damn sick of composite, Even with crappy stats I still hunt in padded and ubese armor ( I have a suit of padded with 59% kenetic and 65% base and ubese 80% ubese which I am plenty happy with) I also PvP in my RIS; call me mad

, but I try to mix it up, I dont care if I become 90% in my composite and no one can kik my arse, I care about gameplay and looking sweet

Kevin "Q-3PO" O'Hara
SOE Associate Producer
SWG Community Relations Manager

Imspaced

Sat Apr 17, 2004 11:06 pm

#45

1 more thing, I propose capping all armor at 40% for any stat, and not putting this cap on RIS or Mandelorean or Stormy or Marine making these armors worth while.

Kevin "Q-3PO" O'Hara
SOE Associate Producer
SWG Community Relations Manager

Vevy

Sat Apr 17, 2004 11:17 pm

#46

that would just make all armor worthless...that wouldn't fix the problem, it would just push us to the other extreme

Vevy
Master Armorsmith / Master Weaponsmith

Srednii

Sat Apr 17, 2004 11:49 pm

#47

I don't like vulnerabilities. I don't like the thought of fighting some creature or person, and then BAM, you get 1 hit killed by some damage type that leaks through a vulnerabilty.

Ubese is great pve armor cause you can be sure everythings going to be hitting that 76% kinetic resists (as long as you don't go hunting npcs anyways). But it's worthless in pvp because it has too many vulnerabilities.

IMHO vulnerabilities shouldn't be 0%, but maby 10-25% max instead. Then you could nerf composite all you like by adding more vuln damage types and I wouldn't mind. Until then tho, I don't want it nerfed.

------------------------------------------------------------

Sre'dni Vashtar - Bria
sv Armoury -4976, 2712 Corellia

Drewpey

Sun Apr 18, 2004 12:03 am

#48

I have a hard time reading some of your points, as some of them are quite subjective.

First of all, I would like to start off saying I did not read all the posts here, mainly b/c it got into buffs, stats and other stuff, and I started to fall asleep.

I would disgree with your statement that composite is the only good armor out there. I haven't made a set of composite for over 5 months now. Up until recently (started making mabari for fun) I have only made Ubese. I would also disagree with you when you say that everyone who uses ubese dosen't know what composite can do. I get a lot of people asking me to repair their composite, while at the same time asking me when I will have more ubese in stock. I get everyone from the "big name" people to newbies stumbling into my shop, and I think most of them know what composite can do, but have good reasons for not wearing it.

One of the main reasons is that we probably play more than the typical SWG casual player. They don't want to get online and look for buffs, look for spice, etc. They don't want to worry about the HAM...and they also can't/don't want to spend 400k+ on a suit of ham sliced composite so they can look like the goof next to them.

I posted this in another thread somewhere, but I will make it brief here. Ubese is the best armor in the game. Not the best protecting, but the best balanced. They need to give each suit of armor a special protection(or two)that can reach 80% given the right resources. All else should be low....like in the 20-30% base range. Composite should be a "all in one" suit, but it should be nerfed down to like a 50% base, no special protections. Faction armor should be craftable and it should be able to be layered with just about anything to make it 80% special, with a low base, or with high base(higher thannerfed composite)w/o specials. Special/Rare armor like RIS and possibly mandelorian should be able to attain the stats of current composite (if not a little higher)

Why?

1. There will be more of a tactic in PvP as well as PvE. I know there is now, but with 90% composite acorss the board, you lose a lot of the "tactics" because you don't have to worry as much b/c you have insane protection vs most of the good weapons.

2. Given an armorsmith goes up the experimentation branch first, they can start making good armor instantly, that will actually sell for decent money, no more waiting until master to make a profit.

3. Composite is too powerful. If they don't nerf it, and only implement better armor to make it inferior, it will only make the problem worse....much worse.

4. Few armorsmiths will be able to make all armor types, creating more opportunities for new armorsmiths, and also preventing one armorsmith from cornering the entire market. This will also lower prices for people and will promote friendliness between armorsmiths (avoiding unfriendly competition)

5. Each armor will have a special protection or two, just like Ubese. Anytime Devs see a certain armor is getting neglected, they can tweak a weapon to make it more powerful, and shifting the need for type of armor (IE: a cold damage weapon) or they can implement somewhere that has a need for a certain type of protection (IE: Hoth.....cold protection anyone?) Right now people have a set mindset of "kinetic" or "stun" and that should change...

6. The outcome of a battle should not be determined by the set of armor you wear, but rather what type of weapon and armor is being used. I know this isn't necessarily the case now, but 99% of all PvPers wear composite, but a 80/65 suit of comp going against a 75/20 set of ubese, I would put my money on the guy in comp, without even looking at the weapon.

7. Rare armor isn't worth the effort, but if things were to be changed like above, those who did go through the effort would be rewarded greatly.

8. Faction armor should be craftable by armorsmiths and should be able to be changed to any type of protection, to encourage the GCW. The game is about the civil war. You should see lots of stormtroopers PC and NPC alike running around shooting marines, etc. You don't. Give people a reason to wear faction armor and they will. Encourage the GCW and bring the crafters into the war.

This will never happen, b/c too many people would whine about it. People are too used to hiding behind their 80/65 composite. If you level the playing ground more, even a casual player with the right tools can have an even fight with a full-tilt kill machine. People will cry that you will have to have too many suits of armor (despite the cost that more ASs will be producing different types of armor and the changes will draw more to the profession) and people will cry that they cannot carry enough suits to cover each special protection they might run into. People have grown too accustomed to not having to worry about armor once you put it on, just the weapon. Change the rules you change the tactics.

I said that was going to be short, but I lied. Sorry.

~Anden of Starsider
~Dewi of Scylla (retired)

I want my GCW!

Drewpey

Sun Apr 18, 2004 12:04 am

#49

double post....sorry again

Message Edited by Drewpey on 04-17-2004 12:05 PM

~Anden of Starsider
~Dewi of Scylla (retired)

I want my GCW!

Xeranx

Sun Apr 18, 2004 12:55 am

#50

Just a word on padded armor. As Vevy said, it's virtually animal skin, but something else suggested here is that padded armor is...well padded. It should be vulnerable to kinetic, but it should offer some limited defense against it. It shouldn't withstand rancor slashings, but it should be able to withstand blunt instrument attacks. Just my opinion.

Teräs Käsi Master 9-27-2003
Master Smuggler 3-04-2004

Ekhvram

Sun Apr 18, 2004 2:15 am

#51

Yeah that's why I said 'strengths' and 'weaknesses'--since armor shouldn't be totally permeable to anything as it *is* a physical layer.

WHat do you guys think about little compromise balances so we go back to having viable Light [Mage], Medium, Heavy [Tank] armor categories for neutrals and GCW participants?

_______ARKK [KOTOR]_______Gatica, Dant. (Live: 10-Midnite CST)_________________

Vevy

Sun Apr 18, 2004 9:30 am

#52

Srednii wrote:

I don't like vulnerabilities. I don't like the thought of fighting some creature or person, and then BAM, you get 1 hit killed by some damage type that leaks through a vulnerabilty.

Ubese is great pve armor cause you can be sure everythings going to be hitting that 76% kinetic resists (as long as you don't go hunting npcs anyways). But it's worthless in pvp because it has too many vulnerabilities.

IMHO vulnerabilities shouldn't be 0%, but maby 10-25% max instead. Then you could nerf composite all you like by adding more vuln damage types and I wouldn't mind. Until then tho, I don't want it nerfed.

That's where buffs and layers come in. Buffs already prevent 1-shot kills as it is for the most part...but adding layers to a vulnerability moves it into the AR1 rating so you're getting more than just the layer's protection...but you're not getting the AR1 PLUS 80% resists on a vulnerability

Vevy
Master Armorsmith / Master Weaponsmith

Armorsmith Archive

Thread: How I would change armor...one Master's perspective