Armorsmith Archive
Thread: Our Top 5 List (Edited 4-24-2005)
Moge_Tira_Tru
Thu Apr 21, 2005 5:00 pm
#28
CaileSathinor wrote:
Yup, look here.
sweet thanks. BTW. I edited my post above with a possible addition to the list
-Droideka-
Thu Apr 21, 2005 6:06 pm
#29
QFE; 'get a group' as an answer to this problem is simply unacceptable.
5) Armorsmiths (or any pure crafter for that matter) with their ass hanging out in the open on the way to the harvester, this is a game breaker if you get one hit incapped/deathblow by anything above CL10 no one will ever see crafted goods ever again. We need either a crafter specific armor (not wearable by combatants)that will give us the equivalent of whateverattacking enemy's CL minus 2ish or make vehicles and their occupants not avalid target for NPCs or Monsters(white dot when mounted). The answer is NOT to have a group escort you. Its unreasonable to ask combat people to follow you around a planet for an hour while you try to find a good resource spot. This needs to be resolved before CU.
RelicOMO
Fri Apr 22, 2005 12:07 am
#30
Make sure armour in SWG 2 is actually even working. The system is so buggy right now, what with some hits not working, other hits working, some creatures being invulnerable, I don't see any indication that armour even works to reduce damage. And if it does, does it work every time? I'd really like to see something that tells us how this 6000 number for armour translates to damage reduction in any way.
EmboWafa
Fri Apr 22, 2005 12:17 am
#31
I can totally live with some of the ongoing issues. I know that armor was overpowered pre-CU. I'm glad it's getting a general nerf. I don't like that the cost of making that armor is going up (due to dramatic increases in resource requirements). There are any number of minor grievances I have with the current proposed system. Below please find my ---2 BIG REASONS--- that I will most likely drop AS if the current system is implemented. Its not a threat or whatever as a childish rant - I play SWG to have fun, and playing an AS as it is testing is not IMO fun.
I know that some aspects are shifting in TC and whatnot, so please don't flame based on my lack of up-to-the-second info. Feel free on the other hand to flame me or my ideas for their othewise general stupidity or whatnot.
1. Resources - Old named resources have been trashed in favor of new named resources. Established armorsmiths are basically being told that the time and money they invested in gathering large stocks of high quality resources are now useless. Tough luck.
--- Solution --- either allow an exchange of old named resources for new named resources with an appropriate %usefullness gate in the Stats or make the old resources similarly useful in the new schematics.
2. Experimentation too simple. The fun of crafting a better suit of armor via compromise and intuition is now gone. There is no point in being a 12 pt AS as any 10 pt AS can fill the single experimentation line.
--- Solutions --- Add a second line that manipulates some other aspect of the armor that *significantly* adds value to the piece. By adding a second line, those extra 2 experimentation points can actually be of value. ---OR--- at a bare minimum, make it so that 12pts are necessary to completely fill the 1 line of experimentation.
I know that some aspects are shifting in TC and whatnot, so please don't flame based on my lack of up-to-the-second info. Feel free on the other hand to flame me or my ideas for their othewise general stupidity or whatnot.
1. Resources - Old named resources have been trashed in favor of new named resources. Established armorsmiths are basically being told that the time and money they invested in gathering large stocks of high quality resources are now useless. Tough luck.
--- Solution --- either allow an exchange of old named resources for new named resources with an appropriate %usefullness gate in the Stats or make the old resources similarly useful in the new schematics.
2. Experimentation too simple. The fun of crafting a better suit of armor via compromise and intuition is now gone. There is no point in being a 12 pt AS as any 10 pt AS can fill the single experimentation line.
--- Solutions --- Add a second line that manipulates some other aspect of the armor that *significantly* adds value to the piece. By adding a second line, those extra 2 experimentation points can actually be of value. ---OR--- at a bare minimum, make it so that 12pts are necessary to completely fill the 1 line of experimentation.
Okram2k
Fri Apr 22, 2005 12:21 am
#32
I think right now #1 ought to be to make sure armor is working in CU, since our tests showed it wasn't... then experimentation, followed by cost to produce (reduced resources and factory times), trying to get %'s back into armor so we don't have to spend a million hours telling people how armor works. Those are my big issues right now.
DarthGoofyBunny
Fri Apr 22, 2005 12:41 am
#33
I think the *ONLY* issue that matters (apart from armor not working, seemingly) is experimentation.
Everything else amounts to variously sized pebbles on the beach. Experimentation is the entire ocean.
Everything else amounts to variously sized pebbles on the beach. Experimentation is the entire ocean.
Grendelwyf
Fri Apr 22, 2005 12:42 am
#34
outside of what you have listed, one of my biggest peaves is the changing of layer requirements. adding the named ores and other resources to our layers seems pretty stupid imo. i dont see why there is any reason to change them from the current requirements we have. the majority of our resources are spent making layers, and since most of us have large stashes of the best resources to make the layers as they are now, i think changing the requirements is a huge disadvantage to veteran smiths.
csphilly
Fri Apr 22, 2005 12:43 am
#35
My top 5, then a few short blurbs. . .
Top 5 Armorsmith Issues
1. Experimentation Oversimplification
2. Resources
3. Conversion of old armor
4. Armor loot (Its hard to comment on this since the conversion is working)
5. Factory times.
Now, a few things. First, something I remember from a while back, where they said that experimentation would be simplified and that what you put into the armor is gonna be like experimenting. This is a HORRIBLE idea. We're already slaves to the uber-loot kings, relying on combatants for GDK scales and Janta Hides. I love the idea of armor loot playing a role in armor, but to make it so that having uber loot is the only way to make good armor is gonna kill us.
Resources. Did anyone notice that the only thing we use Carbonate Ore for now is Cold Layers, but its used in just about everything post-CU? A response like "This is just for testing, the day before launch we're gonna change these to some new resources, and to some old that you have used before" would do very well for easing the minds of all of us.
Finally, old armor conversion. . . Armor that was encumbrance sliced converts as if it wasn't sliced? Any compensation in the conversion process for armor that was low HAM? Right now suits pretty much convert to the same thing regardless of the quality. Anything that is near-good quality is mostly the same (I think, still waiting for TC5 to come up so I can look at my own stuff).
Top 5 Armorsmith Issues
1. Experimentation Oversimplification
2. Resources
3. Conversion of old armor
4. Armor loot (Its hard to comment on this since the conversion is working)
5. Factory times.
Now, a few things. First, something I remember from a while back, where they said that experimentation would be simplified and that what you put into the armor is gonna be like experimenting. This is a HORRIBLE idea. We're already slaves to the uber-loot kings, relying on combatants for GDK scales and Janta Hides. I love the idea of armor loot playing a role in armor, but to make it so that having uber loot is the only way to make good armor is gonna kill us.
Resources. Did anyone notice that the only thing we use Carbonate Ore for now is Cold Layers, but its used in just about everything post-CU? A response like "This is just for testing, the day before launch we're gonna change these to some new resources, and to some old that you have used before" would do very well for easing the minds of all of us.
Finally, old armor conversion. . . Armor that was encumbrance sliced converts as if it wasn't sliced? Any compensation in the conversion process for armor that was low HAM? Right now suits pretty much convert to the same thing regardless of the quality. Anything that is near-good quality is mostly the same (I think, still waiting for TC5 to come up so I can look at my own stuff).
suicid4l
Fri Apr 22, 2005 5:51 am
#36
My top 5
1. Organics being used at 3 different levels of crafting - this dramatically increase the cost which in turn will have to be passed on to the customer. Also with this is Planet specific hides being required. It can take 6+ months for a good hide to spawn on a planet so the only times I would pay a ranger is to get this hide, any crappy hides i will use my alt to get as I will not pay 50+cpu for crappy hides.
2. Named inorganics and the amount of inorganics required for armour at all levels. This has been increased so much that I can easily see non-layered armour costing as much as layered armour does now. I don't want to think how much will be charged for layered armour in the CU as it just wouldnt be worth making for the small increase in resists.
3. Factory times, with the increase in factory times comes more increases in costs. And in the time it will take for armour to get into the system post CU.
All of the above 3 are game breakers for some people when combined. Armour will likely double in price and I won't bother with making armour if this is the only way to go as it just doesn't feel right that prices are increasing dramatically when usefulness of armour is debateable in PvE (the vast majority of players in the game), and just to expensive for PvP (PvPer's like the best so his means layered armour). Also if part of the reason was to make it easier for new crafters to get into AS this fails abismally as with the increases in organics (planet specific ones especially) and the huge increase in the number of named inorganics it will now be harder than ever for a new AS to break into the market.
4. Experimentation. I enjoy As more than any other crafting proffession as it has a complex crafting system that I am still learning about. The new system does not seem to require much thought as to what you have to do.
5. Conversion of existing layers/segments for armour. If these are all being converted as useless then this will cause alot of problems as I stock pile layers when I am not crafting suits of armour so I have subcomponenets ready for use when i need them.
1-3 are game breakers for me that do leave me looking around to see what other games are being released.
4 is something that I dont think we will get changed ever (definitely not this side of CU release).
5 is of immediate concern as with so little time until release it means i will have to look at losing thousands of layers and segs as I wont be able to turn them all into armour before the release date.
-VtS-Maddix
Fri Apr 22, 2005 5:57 am
#37
CaileSathinor wrote:
UPDATE: I got some work done already. As soon as I get the green light, I'll let you know.
I still feel the 'fairness' of faction cost to non-human Armoursmiths when buying Imperial Armour schematics has to be addressed.
From what I understood, the Armoursmith pays a penalty (if one applies), but the end user does not? Hardly seems fair to me. If they really want to enforce the faction point penalties in this case I would personally much prefere to see all Armoursmiths getting the schematics at the same 'base' cost without penalty, and then the end users paying different amounts to Bio-Link it depending upon racial penalties then.
If this was something that took places from the start of the game fair enough, but when most people rolled and grinded their AS they had no idea that in the future they would be punished for not being human.
Arem
Fri Apr 22, 2005 1:07 pm
#38
Immeadiate Issues:
1) Reports of armor not working at all (most critical, I think)
2) Reports of 1 and 2 piece suits granting full protection. Can anyone confirm or deny this please?
3) Non-organic requirements are too high (especially layers)
4) "Fairness" of Armor conversion
5) Open for discussion
Long-term Issues:
1) Experimentation needs to be made more complex.
2) "Epic" vs "Common" Armor differentiation
3) - 5) Open for discussion
Iagree on the immediate issues list, but point 4) Armor Conversion is maybe fair just needs some explanation. As faras I could test the refitting, it is possible to sliced armor again that was sliced already. This might explainthe lowered curve beyond 80% base armor - just a word from the devs could solve many questions.
But conversion has had serveral bugs when I tested on Gorath. With changing servers bug fixes can notbe verified by the same persons with the same test material. That is a big problem atm and needs extra coordination. You can review my issues from Gorath Conversion thread here: http://forums.station.sony.com/swg/board/message?board.id=convtest&message.id=118
I dont see a big problem with the number of organics in sub-comonents. Kashyyykian or Padded already required organics in sub-components. But the amount of requiredresource for layers is too high: A full advanced-layered armor setson TC-Ep3 needs 81*4*3*11=10692 resouces. Live requirements for most complex layers are 47*3*21=2961 resources.
To place Experimentation issue under long-term is good as nobody came up with a reasonable new idea not breaking the new armor system. "Epic" vs "Common" Armor differentiation is also not possible without breaking the new armor system.
JangoFett100
Fri Apr 22, 2005 1:26 pm
#39
Arem wrote:
Immeadiate Issues:
1) Reports of armor not working at all (most critical, I think)
2) Reports of 1 and 2 piece suits granting full protection. Can anyone confirm or deny this please?
3) Non-organic requirements are too high (especially layers)
4) "Fairness" of Armor conversion
5) Open for discussion
Long-term Issues:
1) Experimentation needs to be made more complex.
2) "Epic" vs "Common" Armor differentiation
3) - 5) Open for discussion
Iagree on the immediate issues list, but point 4) Armor Conversion is maybe fair just needs some explanation. As faras I could test the refitting, it is possible to sliced armor again that was sliced already. This might explainthe lowered curve beyond 80% base armor - just a word from the devs could solve many questions.
But conversion has had serveral bugs when I tested on Gorath. With changing servers bug fixes can notbe verified by the same persons with the same test material. That is a big problem atm and needs extra coordination. You can review my issues from Gorath Conversion thread here: http://forums.station.sony.com/swg/board/message?board.id=convtest&message.id=118
I dont see a big problem with the number of organics in sub-comonents. Kashyyykian or Padded already required organics in sub-components. But the amount of requiredresource for layers is too high: A full advanced-layered armor setson TC-Ep3 needs 81*4*3*11=10692 resouces. Live requirements for most complex layers are 47*3*21=2961 resources.
To place Experimentation issue under long-term is good as nobody came up with a reasonable new idea not breaking the new armor system. "Epic" vs "Common" Armor differentiation is also not possible without breaking the new armor system.
I'm not sure an explantion is enough for the conversion of existing armor. Unless the explanation is we want the old armor to be a lesser quality.In which case we have a completely different issue.