Armorsmith Archive

Thread: Armorsmith Revamp Proposition 1: General Discussion

RumblingSky
Sat Apr 03, 2004 8:07 pm
#27






justapilgrim wrote:

one glaring problem is padded


everyone uses ubese, no one uses padded. Why notplay with changing padded? no one uses it so why do they care.


add an extra 10% to base, get a nice 50% base to everything with no vulnerabilities. Why not have this stun as special protection. most masters know there is a demand for stun layered composite, and it is usually around 37%. How many people would buy a padded helmet if it were 50% stun resists. Every one would have to have a padded helmet to go with his composite suit.,


More armor. I love making the wookie armor. It wasa great addition. Now some layered kashyyykian armor should be next.


SkinnyManDo
(battlemaster turned wussy crafter)
----------------------------------------------------


Master Amorsmith Armor shop now open.
Shops in New Alderaan (dantooine) 4220 -2716 near shuttleport
Skinny's Cheap armor on the beach in bartertown -403 -5636
NIce Ubese and affordable composite, with all other armor and psgs
winning bids plese deliver to bartertown







I could see adding stun to Padded's BASE protections.. but I can't see it being the Special Resist. That should be reserved for new, questable armor types.. It's just too much in demand. But simply adding Stun to it's base would show an amazing turn around for it. That's why I kind of like the idea of 2 Special Protections for the upper teir armors also. For compo it was just to sort of pad the nerf but with Padded it would definately help sales. The thing is, if Padded had Kinetic and something else and a strategic contrast in Vulnerabilities to Ubese, both Padded and Ubese would stay useful, depending on what you hunted and when. But I do like the idea in concept of putting Stun in the Basic resists. Now I'm wondering just how high Padded's basic defenses can go.
RumblingSky
Sat Apr 03, 2004 8:09 pm
#28






VemaGara wrote:
Customers are the third part of this matrix. This problem is not so easily solved. As long as the customer asks the question, "What is the best armor?" armorsmithing will have a problem. Once the PERCEPTION appears of a "best armor", demand for that armor will grow, while demand for the "crappy" armor will diminish. This will happen even if there is a 1% difference in the armors.

Fortunately, or unfortunately, the answer to this problem lies outside of the game system. This is customer education. Armorsmiths can do it right now. Most of you do. You know how much work that takes. This might be worthy of its own thread: better way to educate the customer.

Good luck, guys.





I agree completely. That is why I am thinking that if you balance out the armors more, it will blur the idea of what the "best" armor for any given situation would be. But then again.. I also agree this could support its own thread. Why not give that a shot since it's your comment?
Epif
Sun Apr 04, 2004 12:05 am
#29

A new idea on armor encomberance jsut came to mind. Perhaps instead of a certain amount of each of the stats it shoulf take away a percentage! This way doctor buffs could be halved or even more so if you had ridiculously heavy 90% composite armor.
Rebal_Dude
Sun Apr 04, 2004 7:20 am
#30

I think the best thing to do is in this case just nerf some of the armour types. Done no if this would work but give every type of armour 2 vunrabilitys that it will never offer protection aginst and then give it 2 or 3 that will always be above say 50%. this will make people buy different types. This may also have a positive affect on weapon smiths who will hve people asking for a wide selection of weapons to combat people wearing different types of armour. If say a suit of chitin armour has a kin res of 50% of a mid level armour smith then u may see people starting to ues blasters again instead of flamers and lighning cannones which is all i ever see in PvP. This may also mean that peole will start to get rid of comp a bit because if the armour was to offer no stun wot so ever they will always get people hitting them with stun battons which may make people turn around and think about different types of armour. Because if membar was to give a min of 50% heat of a novice smith i no i would go out and buy some..


As for factional armour i would say make it an all round type of armour with no vun of special abilitys. with this in mind i makes faction armour a far better prospect if u no u dont have any weekness in it.. If ST armour had 60% all round its all imps would wera for its HAM costs
mka
Sun Apr 04, 2004 7:37 am
#31






Epif wrote:
A new idea on armor encomberance jsut came to mind. Perhaps instead of a certain amount of each of the stats it shoulf take away a percentage! This way doctor buffs could be halved or even more so if you had ridiculously heavy 90% composite armor.






For examplea 60-70% secondary stat decrease for composite. This would make everyone able to wear the armour even without buffs, but it would also severely cut the usefulness of heavy armour AND buffs.



Jeswin Esqui - Master Smuggler - Master Commando - Master Pilot - Chimaera Galaxy
RumblingSky
Sun Apr 04, 2004 9:44 am
#32


Reg: Encumberance


Well how about this simple solution. Buffs affect your regeneration rate and the special usage, but would have no effect regards to armor. Very minimal changes from a player standpoint would occur with this.


For instance. Say your Strength and Constitution were 400 each. The armor you require to wear needs 500 Strength. You get buffs of 2,000 for each stat. For the purpose of armor, both stats "remain" 400. For the purpose of everything else, they would be 2,400.


This would result in people not being able to buff up to wear armor, but could still buff up to solo and take on tougher MOBs (like Krayts) in a group. Thus, people would require Armor with a lower HAM and thus, lower resists or they would just have to get lighter armor to get the high resists they desire.

Message Edited by RumblingSky on 04-04-2004 12:46 PM

Almhevlasa
Sun Apr 04, 2004 1:46 pm
#33



RumblinSky you asked "How do we increase usage of all armor types?"


Admitedly this would alleviate a pet pieve I have about this game...


Why can't I have nightvision? As an armorsmith why can't I put nightvision into certain types of helmets?


What about some sort of advanced auto targeting system? I would like to have something that highlights all the hostiles in the area within my field of view and could auto target the center most hostile. Or even an integrated group selection and targeting system that could be used only if a Squad Leader was present. She/He could designate the first, second, third, etc targets and even assign group members to attack specific targets.


I realize the group targeting thing would be some major work, doesn't take a programmer to know that...since I'm clearly not one. But the nightvision thing already exists, and has existed for several years within the gaming world....not to mention the REAL world! Even my sister's camcorder has night vision, it will even turn on a little infra red light of it's own so you can see in total darkness!


Anyone else want a night vision Composite Helm?



Khazad Pallaran - Rising Star, Dantooine. Starsider


Master Armorsmith, Master Merchant, Master Artisan, Master Pistoleer (Retired)


GraySeven
Sun Apr 04, 2004 7:01 pm
#34

I pulled this from a reply I did on a different thread. Just an idea I wanted to throw out...

It comes down to wearing what is best. Certifications would increase the use of other armor types, but would be fought by the community tooth and nail. I have often suggested multiple styles of each armor type, much as there are styles of houses. Modifying the armor art slightly shouldn't be a major undertaking and would allow a bit more customization...


But truthfully, the WAY armor is done is flawed and should be radically changed. As it stands now, the armor itself dictates the stats and protective ability. Bone Armor is low and Composite is high (until the RIS quest is made for CRAFTERS and not COMBATANTS, it does not exist for me).


I am having problems with how to say this, but I'll try. Maybe someone else can say it better......


Make the Style of Armor (Bone, Mabari, Chitin) nothing more than how it looks. Style could be its own tree (tied in with colorization and alternate styles) and separate from the protection....


The actual protections would be dictated much as the layers are currently, i.e. as you go up in skill you get added protections.


It would all boil down to a Master Armorsmiths ability to make a suit of bone armor that protects no differently than a suit of composite. The style wouldn't dictate the protections, the armorsmith his or herself would. This would allow an almost infinite variablity within the armors, allowing 'smiths to skip on protection types to reduce HAM or allowing custom orders from fighters looking for specific protections for the job.....


It is a most radical idea, but one I believe has merit. It isn't unreasonable to think that someone might want a kinetic only armor, such as a Ranger who wouldn't need to worry about energy weapons at all. And a PvP'er would be able to concentrate protection on the most popular weapon damage types. There will still be some that want maximum protection from all types of damage, too.


Make any sense?





Vahl Arturin - Elder Ranger, Elder Bounty Hunter, Elder Rifleman
&
Vaylis Arturin - Elder Armorsmith
Starsider
"The burning is love"

DrClawX
Mon Apr 05, 2004 4:15 am
#35

I think with the current buff system there is no penelty on wearing armor, perhaps heavier (composite) armor wouldhavefixed - mods like movment penalty and - dodge mods. While giveing def to kd and bleed. And light armor (bone) would be harder to hit easier ti bleed and kd.


You could have a fixed armor hole where damage would rarely (if never) slip though on composite, while bone has a slight chance of geting hit in a weak spot.


As well make enhancements such as vororater liz scales some what like a harvested item like milk or crustation. Shift the resists like minable stuff where as a vororater liz scale may be desireable one week but a scharmaff segment would be the next. Kryate scales should always be tough to get and best to use but make an easier more widly collectaable enhacment (stackable) creature loot. As well make it available in lower numbers to avoidsmiths running 100000 suits of uber enhaced composite. This will add more variety of resists, as well as some rarer pieces that arnt mass prouced by the crate.


Perhaps de's could add electronic components to armor such as a targeting device or a load lifting device. Tailors got there be and we would have our de's. Create a situation where 3 layerd heavy comp would almost need a load lifting device cause it be so heavy the wearer would not be able to move in it. While the bone helm may get the target device cause its easier to wear.


Examples: im a rilfle man as well as a simith so ill use rifleman. First off lets class rifle into a machine gunner or sniper type. Were as a machine gunner may want to wear composite beacuse hes in the front line taking more damage. Where as the sniper type may choose mabari cause i would probably be in a covered state shooting from farther away.


As well i would like to see a longer drawn out battle where i dont get killed in two hits (pvp mainly). where as the avg deul may last about 2 or 3 shots fired. It should be a longer more statiegic where as conserving specials may be the focus as opposed to spamming most damaging attack. May be off topic but still applies to armor as well as supports some of the above sugestions.


As well i noticed this profession is largly based on demand sure i could sell 100k triple layered comp, but some guy wiht more money than me will come and buy out my stock. Whats the point of makin a 50% chittinfor 30k where as a 75% ubese will sell for 200k, it takes about the same effort and uber resources as the ubese. They both are at the top of there class, and about equal in HAM and resists respectivly. Yet im not payin 100k for chittin is a bout the answer u get where as the same guy would just buy 3 sets if they were 30k. Id almost have to gimp my chittin purposly to sell at a lvl peps will pay for.


ep in mind i dont post often and all examples are just made up off the top of my head, so they arnt set in stone jsut a brainstorm of a few ideas some of which ive tohught about and some i just thought of now. I hope someone reads this lol, i suck at typing and it took about an hour or two to write. hehe if any one feels they like these ideas fell free post elsewhere, im a posting newb and id like see my ideas noticed and not burried in some thread.


Fo'be Molo'chra <TS> master armorsmith, Kauri
papos
Mon Apr 05, 2004 5:41 am
#36

I see some good coming out of this thread, however..


I what i would see happeing if the buffs didnt mitigate the HAM cost of armour is that Composite armour wouldbecome the domain of 12 point smiths only able to drasticlly reduce the ham costs on Layers and then the segements again.


I would love to be a 12 pointer but the amount of money to become this is just insane, working on my current level of sales with 2 vendors i think i could afford to buy 20+pointsin maybe 18 months, what will the life span of this game be,5+years?

/RantOff


Sorry i couldnt be more constructive right now.




--

Papos Master Armoursmith
Vendor 1683, -2424 in Soria, nr Dearic, Talus
Currently producing:
70% Kinetic Ubese.
80%Kinetic 62%Base Advanced Composite
VemaGara
Mon Apr 05, 2004 9:56 am
#37

I really like your style proposal. You propose seperating FORM from FUNCTION. That's great.

The only flaw that I see is that players will flock to the heaviest form of every armor. In essence, you get "composite in many flavors" rather than armors with a variety of uses and functions. You've widened the fashion, but not really addressed the underlying problem.

Perhaps if each layer came with a fixed flaw... For instance, Stun layers get a negative terrain negociation, kinetic gets a negative ranged accuracy, and Blast layers decrease dodge. Specialized armor could avoid having many negatives by having fewer layers, but wide protecting armor would be have enough penalties for everyone to give pause. You can reduce the penalty in the final assembly, but then the resists would be less. The primary layer would have no penalty, so those who want an armor with great resists would want an armor with only one layer, and they would also have very few penalties. The "best" balance would fall in the middle, with most players wanting Kinetic, Energy, and something else.

Another possibility is to add skill bonuses in the same slots and layers. This gives a player an incentive to choose an armor with a vulnerability, because they get a great benefit from their armor.

Yes, I really do like your idea. From this, much more becomes possible.



Dr. Vema Gara
Master Doctor, Master Fencer
Imperial Ace (solo), Imperial Inquisition
Valcyn
(Sophitia, Trinidad on Test)
RumblingSky
Mon Apr 05, 2004 5:56 pm
#38






Almhevlasa wrote:

What about some sort of advanced auto targeting system? I would like to have something that highlights all the hostiles in the area within my field of view and could auto target the center most hostile. Or even an integrated group selection and targeting system that could be used only if a Squad Leader was present. She/He could designate the first, second, third, etc targets and even assign group members to attack specific targets.








Actually, this is an amazing idea. It could be a craftable item used in the Enhancements slot. But what I just don't get is why there is no /assist command. You know.. where you target someone, type /assist and their target becomes your target..


It was one of the few things they got right in EverQuest and didn't bring it over. Kinda like the /ooc where you could spam in a seperate channel and not irritate or lag everyone else. heh So much for live and learn.
RumblingSky
Mon Apr 05, 2004 5:59 pm
#39






GraySeven wrote:
I pulled this from a reply I did on a different thread. Just an idea I wanted to throw out...

It comes down to wearing what is best. Certifications would increase the use of other armor types, but would be fought by the community tooth and nail. I have often suggested multiple styles of each armor type, much as there are styles of houses. Modifying the armor art slightly shouldn't be a major undertaking and would allow a bit more customization...


But truthfully, the WAY armor is done is flawed and should be radically changed. As it stands now, the armor itself dictates the stats and protective ability. Bone Armor is low and Composite is high (until the RIS quest is made for CRAFTERS and not COMBATANTS, it does not exist for me).


I am having problems with how to say this, but I'll try. Maybe someone else can say it better......


Make the Style of Armor (Bone, Mabari, Chitin) nothing more than how it looks. Style could be its own tree (tied in with colorization and alternate styles) and separate from the protection....


The actual protections would be dictated much as the layers are currently, i.e. as you go up in skill you get added protections.


It would all boil down to a Master Armorsmiths ability to make a suit of bone armor that protects no differently than a suit of composite. The style wouldn't dictate the protections, the armorsmith his or herself would. This would allow an almost infinite variablity within the armors, allowing 'smiths to skip on protection types to reduce HAM or allowing custom orders from fighters looking for specific protections for the job.....


It is a most radical idea, but one I believe has merit. It isn't unreasonable to think that someone might want a kinetic only armor, such as a Ranger who wouldn't need to worry about energy weapons at all. And a PvP'er would be able to concentrate protection on the most popular weapon damage types. There will still be some that want maximum protection from all types of damage, too.


Make any sense?








You know.. at first glance.. I think this would be an outstanding idea. Except it is purely asthetic. It takes a lot of the realism out of crafting, purchasing and wearing armor. However, I do think this idea holds a lot of merit and could be the last resort ultimate balance answer. Only after completely giving up on the current system.
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