Armorsmith Archive
Thread: A Silent Majority?
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Deeb0
Tue Apr 19, 2005 11:59 pm
#14
Fellstaff wrote:
We won't see people hitting master in any elite combat profession in a day (or 2), so there will be a demand for armor at every level, and there will definitely be an increase in demand for the lower level armor after the CU because of the influx of players. After hanging around the Mining Outpost for a couple of weeks I've seen a LARGE number of new players flowing through.. People that have never had a buff before and are wearing novice marksman and novice brawler titles. We should expect even more new players after the CU and more again when the SWG all in one pack (SWG + JTL + RoTW) is release in late May for about $30US.
TitanTen wrote:
Fellstaff wrote:
We have one suit of armor and no variability now (PRE CU). We have composite.. and composite, and everyyone makes its in 80%, 80% and 80%.
TitanTen wrote:
Fellstaff wrote:
Kesslan wrote:
That's the whole thing though that were complaining about. There isnt really a whole hell of alot to learn. Other than what's the best layer combination. Used to be you had plenty of stuff to learn like not only layer combos, but how to properly balance resists, base, and HAM.
Now it's just.. ok this layer works best overall. So use that every time, use only advanced cores, and obviously max out the only experimentaton bar you get. Wee!
EXCEPT you can't make the 'best' armor and sell it to newbies... now armorsmithing is all about variety, both in the 3 styles (assault, battle, recon) and the levels you need to match with the level of mitigation a player might have...
yeah sounds so much more enjoyable... especially since it takes MUCH longer to make, more resources, and is harder factoring levels.
Yeah and matching the hindrances to the mitigation of the players will be real involved... more like just make all 9 types and then put on the skins. I would rather make only 1 set of armor, but actually have variability in it then make 9 sets that all do the same dang thing and are made the exact same way.
The CU will give more life to armorsmithing because there will be more variety in armor, and smiths of every level will have a market. This is the same template for weaponsmiths. Weapons for every level, at every level. They're taking the uber out of the low end weapons by restricting them to basic components so a lower level smith can compete with a higher level. The same will be true for armorsmithing. A novice making bone can craft for the low level (low hindrance) crowd as well as a master, but they can't compete with a master when it comes to higher hindrance armor.
Message Edited by Fellstaff on 04-20-2005 12:56 AM
and after the CU you are going to see 3 sets of armor used by everyone. Advanced Battle, Recon, and Assault. The look doesnt matter now. Advanced Bone is as good as Advanced padded. You say that people will use the other tiers of armor. You know its not true. Maybe once in a while you get someone who will fear hindrances, but for the most part people will find what works best (read as: allows them to solo whatever) and use it.
With the respec I would think that the majority of the players will be master elites just as it is now.
HsaeNothgiel
Wed Apr 20, 2005 8:36 am
#15
in my first days of master AS, i got too many tells asking for armor, and i didn't have all my resources yet
so i switched to my novice artisan tag 
i've seen supposed "novice brawlers" wielding lightsabers 
Wallid
Wed Apr 20, 2005 8:46 am
#16
Fellstaff wrote:We have one suit of armor and no variability now (PRE CU). We have composite.. and composite, and everyyone makes its in 80%, 80% and 80%.
TitanTen wrote:
Fellstaff wrote:
Kesslan wrote:That's the whole thing though that were complaining about. There isnt really a whole hell of alot to learn. Other than what's the best layer combination. Used to be you had plenty of stuff to learn like not only layer combos, but how to properly balance resists, base, and HAM.Now it's just.. ok this layer works best overall. So use that every time, use only advanced cores, and obviously max out the only experimentaton bar you get. Wee!
EXCEPT you can't make the 'best' armor and sell it to newbies... now armorsmithing is all about variety, both in the 3 styles (assault, battle, recon) and the levels you need to match with the level of mitigation a player might have...yeah sounds so much more enjoyable... especially since it takes MUCH longer to make, more resources, and is harder factoring levels.Yeah and matching the hindrances to the mitigation of the players will be real involved... more like just make all 9 types and then put on the skins. I would rather make only 1 set of armor, but actually have variability in it then make 9 sets that all do the same dang thing and are made the exact same way.The CU will give more life to armorsmithing because there will be more variety in armor, and smiths of every level will have a market. This is the same template for weaponsmiths. Weapons for every level, at every level. They're taking the uber out of the low end weapons by restricting them to basic components so a lower level smith can compete with a higher level. The same will be true for armorsmithing. A novice making bone can craft for the low level (low hindrance) crowd as well as a master, but they can't compete with a master when it comes to higher hindrance armor.Message Edited by Fellstaff on 04-20-2005 12:56 AM
Considering I just had an order for 10 Tantel, 5 hunting armor, 2 comp, 3 Ubese, 1 chitin ( he said anything to grind with, ok, here's a good one). My stats have been across the baord. with Hunting armor as my top stuff. I just aquired GOOD steel to do advanced comp segs, so we'll see how it goes. the certs, and needing of armor for certain occasions doesn't phase me. I'm already making something other then comp, and selling off Mabari, Bone, and chitin to new players. My beef as well as others is experimentation and resoruces. I think us MAS out there can deal with creating different types of armor, we're just ticked at the proceedure and what goes into it. They went overbaord with this CU. if anything, would have been 10 -35 lines of code. Instead they went out and over compensated for the lack of something.
How we get it through to them would be most intrigueing.
For all your Field Protections needs (as well as Reb Master Munitions Crafter ).
freedomwarrior
Wed Apr 20, 2005 1:09 pm
#17
ZionHalcyon wrote:
Is it wrong overall to be in the middle of this thing?
On the one hand, I think Sybanis exactly right on about starting over, and Fellstaff is dead on about how different level of players will need different levels of armor, and I do think the people who hate the CURB are understating the impact of hinderance.
On the other hand, I think the new AS system needs a little more variety (but there shouldn't be GOD MODE like composite now) and needs to give smiths more to do to make their armors unique, and armor needs to be more of a factor in PvE combat.
So I guess I think one side is painting too rosy a picture, and the other side too gloomy a picture.
Fair?
Fair? Hardly mate. On this we will have to agree to disagree I guess. To be fair, there must be balance, and this CU doesnt have it. With the way experimenting is done, all armors are going to be the same, no matter whether a 10 point smith or 12 point smith. The only difference is going to be that the 12 point smiths armor might have an extra 1 or 2k condition and thats it. Other than that, the stats on the armors are going to be the same, whether it be padded or other forms of adv armor. The same will go for the other levels of armor. The only difference is going to be the skins. Is that why youplay armorsmith? to make a different skinned armor with the same stats?
I know we can add loots to armors to make them inheritantly different, but it shouldnt be about that. I know it might seem silly to say, but 3 different tiers of armor experimentation did make for different types or varieties of armor. Some went ham, some went condition, some did both. Now, we wont have that.
Then you top that with the increased organic resources and well, its by no means a fair system. Ive been an armorsmith since 10/2003, just as you have been one for that period of time too, and well, its just frustrating to now be told that we dont matter, and gee, we are just gonna make you exactly like the new player coming into armorsmith. To me thats a slap in the face, and I dont much like being slapped.
ZionHalcyon
Wed Apr 20, 2005 1:12 pm
#18
freedomwarrior wrote:
ZionHalcyon wrote:
Is it wrong overall to be in the middle of this thing?
On the one hand, I think Sybanis exactly right on about starting over, and Fellstaff is dead on about how different level of players will need different levels of armor, and I do think the people who hate the CURB are understating the impact of hinderance.
On the other hand, I think the new AS system needs a little more variety (but there shouldn't be GOD MODE like composite now) and needs to give smiths more to do to make their armors unique, and armor needs to be more of a factor in PvE combat.
So I guess I think one side is painting too rosy a picture, and the other side too gloomy a picture.
Fair?
Fair? Hardly mate. On this we will have to agree to disagree I guess. To be fair, there must be balance, and this CU doesnt have it. With the way experimenting is done, all armors are going to be the same, no matter whether a 10 point smith or 12 point smith. The only difference is going to be that the 12 point smiths armor might have an extra 1 or 2k condition and thats it. Other than that, the stats on the armors are going to be the same, whether it be padded or other forms of adv armor. The same will go for the other levels of armor. The only difference is going to be the skins. Is that why youplay armorsmith? to make a different skinned armor with the same stats?
I know we can add loots to armors to make them inheritantly different, but it shouldnt be about that. I know it might seem silly to say, but 3 different tiers of armor experimentation did make for different types or varieties of armor. Some went ham, some went condition, some did both. Now, we wont have that.
Then you top that with the increased organic resources and well, its by no means a fair system. Ive been an armorsmith since 10/2003, just as you have been one for that period of time too, and well, its just frustrating to now be told that we dont matter, and gee, we are just gonna make you exactly like the new player coming into armorsmith. To me thats a slap in the face, and I dont much like being slapped.
You are right - we disagree. *shrug*
Slapped? I don't feel slapped - I refuse to take a game that personally.
I'll leave it at that.
Message Edited by ZionHalcyon on 04-20-2005 03:13 PM
Vastar
Wed Apr 20, 2005 7:29 pm
#19
ZionHalcyon wrote:
Slapped? I don't feel slapped - I refuse to take a game that personally.
We're on a message board relating to SWG. I'm sure he meant the SWG equivalent of being slapped and not that it really affected his life personally. I know I feel like I'm being punished for collecting resources and an experimentation suit as the effect of being dedicated to having well stocked vendors with quality armor. First, galactic vendor searching removes the need to maintain a well stocked vendor. Now, the resources/experimentation suit I've invested in have significantly less to do with quality armor. It's not affecting my relationships with real life friends/morality/tire pressure but it's about as bad as it can get within the confines of the game world.
freedomwarrior
Thu Apr 21, 2005 12:04 am
#20
Fellstaff wrote:
We have one suit of armor and no variability now (PRE CU). We have composite.. and composite, and everyyone makes its in 80%, 80% and 80%.
TitanTen wrote:
Fellstaff wrote:
Kesslan wrote:
That's the whole thing though that were complaining about. There isnt really a whole hell of alot to learn. Other than what's the best layer combination. Used to be you had plenty of stuff to learn like not only layer combos, but how to properly balance resists, base, and HAM.
Now it's just.. ok this layer works best overall. So use that every time, use only advanced cores, and obviously max out the only experimentaton bar you get. Wee!
EXCEPT you can't make the 'best' armor and sell it to newbies... now armorsmithing is all about variety, both in the 3 styles (assault, battle, recon) and the levels you need to match with the level of mitigation a player might have...
yeah sounds so much more enjoyable... especially since it takes MUCH longer to make, more resources, and is harder factoring levels.
Yeah and matching the hindrances to the mitigation of the players will be real involved... more like just make all 9 types and then put on the skins. I would rather make only 1 set of armor, but actually have variability in it then make 9 sets that all do the same dang thing and are made the exact same way.
The CU will give more life to armorsmithing because there will be more variety in armor, and smiths of every level will have a market. This is the same template for weaponsmiths. Weapons for every level, at every level. They're taking the uber out of the low end weapons by restricting them to basic components so a lower level smith can compete with a higher level. The same will be true for armorsmithing. A novice making bone can craft for the low level (low hindrance) crowd as well as a master, but they can't compete with a master when it comes to higher hindrance armor.
Message Edited by Fellstaff on 04-20-2005 12:56 AM
Fellstaff,
Let me start off by saying that you are incorrect. Yes, there are different armor skins so no one will be running around in comp, but maybe padded or bone. However, the armor stats will be the exact same. They wont be different. All that is changing is the skin for said armor, so how do you figure we will be making a more varried sets of armor?
I already make padded, ubese, chitin, and composite. So my armor in current was already varied enough. With this cu, now my padded, chitin and ubese will be the same, and the heavy assault and composites will be the same. The only diversity is on whether I use kin or energy segments and we had that already. I make currently heat, energy, blast, stun and kin in all my forms of armor so the diversity isnt going to be there for me or any other smith to be honest. Let me give you a little example of diversity for my current armors. I make an 80 kin 52 base padded, a 65blast 65 base padded, i make 80 kin 80 elec 6 stun 72 base comp, and for my other comps like heat just impose heat where kin is. My chittin I do 2 forms, an energy and a kin for different types of fights. Those come out to like 65 kin or 66 energy depending on which suit you use there. In the current system, the stats will be the same, so 5200 kin will exist for my chitin, padded and ubese and it wont matter. All thats different is the skins as ive said previously.
Heck even a dev stated in stratics chat that the only difference was going to be the skins on the armor, so now you tell me. Is that fun, and in all honesty, how long is it gonna take you to figure out how and what you need to do to make the armor light and combat efficient. Since your an armorsmith now, and im sure fairly smart, I dont imagine its gonna take you long at all. This type of system is exactly like the eq2 system. Its a rinse and repeat system which is not fun. Im going to give the cu a chance just like several others I know, but unless what ive mentioned previously is adjusted some, I will just keep the jedi acct and move on.
ZionHalcyon
Thu Apr 21, 2005 12:51 am
#21
Is it wrong overall to be in the middle of this thing?
On the one hand, I think Sybanis exactly right on about starting over, and Fellstaff is dead on about how different level of players will need different levels of armor, and I do think the people who hate the CURB are understating the impact of hinderance.
On the other hand, I think the new AS system needs a little more variety (but there shouldn't be GOD MODE like composite now) and needs to give smiths more to do to make their armors unique, and armor needs to be more of a factor in PvE combat.
So I guess I think one side is painting too rosy a picture, and the other side too gloomy a picture.
Fair? 
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