Armorsmith Archive
Thread: Armorsmith ISSUES List (Updated June 13, 2005)
CaileSathinor wrote:
Sorry, this is something I can't in my right mind push for. Slicing never had consequences before. Now it does. It's an illegal act and should have a penalty. And I'll say it again. No master elite should completely mitigate the effects of quad layered advanced armor. Period.
The only thing I will push for hinderance-wise is more hinderance additions but also ways to modify it. But I won't push for anything that will end up with Master Elites totally mitigating hinderance.
Sorry, Caile, but I think you're totally off-base with this. Slicing may be an "illegal" activity in theory, but in practice, it's about as "illegal" as going 5MPH over the limit on the interstate. The penalty for carrying sliced gear is the potential contraband scan. Yeah, it's exceedingly rare, but it already exists. There's no real drawback to slicing weapons, but armor has one.
Hindrances are now directly tied to general protection. The design goal was that armor would be a natural part of a combatant's gear, and one that wouldn't hurt him more than it helps. Pushing for additional hindrances will throw this off.
Furthermore, with the layer thing -- they already have a penalty! It's the reduction of the opposing resist. In fact, when you run the percentile resist numbers, the lowered resist becomes significantly worse than the raised resist becomes better. It was the fact that environmental resists are pretty trivial that got primus layers nerfed during the CURB beta.
Couple other issues:
- Condition on segments and cores doesn't show, although they carry some value. It would be nice to see the value.
- Certain resources for layers simply do not spawn on anything resembling a regular basis, like plexite amorphous gemstone, chromite carbonate ore, etc.
CaileSathinor wrote:
Sorry, this is something I can't in my right mind push for. Slicing never had consequences before. Now it does. It's an illegal act and should have a penalty. And I'll say it again. No master elite should completely mitigate the effects of quad layered advanced armor. Period.
The only thing I will push for hinderance-wise is more hinderance additions but also ways to modify it. But I won't push for anything that will end up with Master Elites totally mitigating hinderance.
Brutus_Krylop wrote: There's no real drawback to slicing weapons, but armor has one.Hindrances are now directly tied to general protection.
This is my point, that the hindrances I am receiving are the same for unlayered and layered armours. So, hindrances are not directly related to protection in any reasonable way.
The fact that you should have a higher hindrance and therefore suffer skill loss for wearing sliced armour applies if you have an energy stat at 8k as well as if you have a base stat at around 5500. This is not reflecting general protection, and this is not balanced based upon experience in the field with elemantal damage.
There is absolutely no reason that the protection caps should be so low as to give a master elite profession any hindrance whatsoever on unlayered or layered and sliced armour. Slicing is meant to be the icing on the cake for quality goods. A master of an elite profession is meant to have mastered all elments of that profession including their armour type. The only reason hindrance was introduced was to limit the protection for people with lesser combat skills (so you could no longer walk into a lair of quenkers and spam areas to grind).
Waiting for a smuggler revamp is simply not an option as it has been one of the lowest priority upgrades since before I started the game and personally, I would rather see balance done to pvp before smugglers have anything apart from bug fixes.
This is an issue that effects AS merchandise so is of immediate concern to us. The hindrance rates on all three armour types should be shared and flattened between the three stats. Hindrance on sliced armour for master elites does not promote group play or better define combat roles it simply lessens the likelihood of variety and increases the incidence of clone stacker templates with identical equipment.
Message Edited by ealide on 05-26-2005 10:47 PM
Message Edited by ealide on 05-26-2005 10:49 PM
Message Edited by ealide on 05-26-2005 10:49 PM
How about this for an issue:
Neutronium Steel spawns on Bria for the first time in literally months...
...and it has on OQ of 57!!!
Something is fundamentally wrong with this. There is almost certainly a typo in theprogramming that would allow such a vital named component resource to spawn so infrequently with such low quality.
Brutus_Krylop wrote:
TKMs get the 6000 armor rating without having to wear any armor -- they never have any hindrances, but they can never improve their armor rating, either. Allowing sliced, capped battle armor to have no extra hindrances effectively nullifies the tank role for Teras Kasi, as other professions could then better absorb and deal out more damage.
Brutus_Krylop wrote:
A Master Elite combatant should never have any hindrances from unsliced armor. Period.
CaileSathinor wrote:
Not *always* But in the case of quad layered, advanced core armor, it should. This stuff is the heaviest of heavy, the most protective and should have some penalty.
Heavy? What does "heavy" mean under the new system? Until there's a "weight" or "mass" stat on armor, this is a non sequitur throwback to the old system. While you might rationalize layers as adding extra mass to the armor, I could just as easily rationalize them as "coats of paint" or some such that add some extra protection.
As for being the most protective, I'll buy that, but only for primus-layered and then, only because environmental damage is so utterly trivial right now. Still, perfectly primus-layered cappedbattle armor would only increase the effectivekinetic and energy resists by 2.8 percentage points.Furthermore, while energy- or kinetic-layering may substantially increase the layered resist, but the counter resist drops by more than the layered resist increases. The reverse to diminishing returns is increasing losses.
Does any of thatreally necessitate a penalty in the form of additionalhindrances? There's already a significant cost, time, and resource investment over unlayered armor.I think that's your penalty right there.
raider7734 wrote:
Brutus_Krylop wrote:
TKMs get the 6000 armor rating without having to wear any armor -- they never have any hindrances, but they can never improve their armor rating, either. Allowing sliced, capped battle armor to have no extra hindrances effectively nullifies the tank role for Teras Kasi, as other professions could then better absorb and deal out more damage.
Weak argument.Any TKM that is tanking will also have masteredanother elite melee prof (to reach CL 80) and will therefore be certed to wear armor better than their innate 6000, if they want to use it.Andno other prof is going to tank without Improved Center of Being, it's the difference between getting hit for 63 or 200+... this is actually more responsible for TKMs toughness than their innate armor.
High-end game realities aside, however, the fact remains that the Teras Kasi innate armor is a huge factor in armor and design balance. And not everything is balanced solely forCL80 content (take a look at Kashyyyk). They are supposed to be the damage avoiders and mitigators, and they're designed to do it without ever having to visit a weaponsmith or an armorsmith.
No one can have access to better all-around armor than Master Teras Kasi Artists innately posess without either having some extra hindrances or being a Jedi. That's what we have to deal with. That's the design reality, whether it's a "weak" proposition or not.
I guarantee you that if a Dev came in here and discussed this, he'd point to the TKA innate armor as one of the limiting factors.
It's not even as if the hindrance stats are any accurate reflection of the armour's quality: they stay much the same regardless of layers. This is simply a bug and needs to be viewed as such.