Armorsmith Archive
Thread: No Armorsmiths on TC? Here's a link to some data on the new system /cry
Ail wrote:
So explains me how he is getting 110 with the new system ?
Obviously his resources aren't the best, and we shouldn't expect them to be as TC's elite crafters are relatively new.
That doesn't change the fact that under the new system it will take 9-10 points to max out one line, regardless of material quality. Those 0/0/0 HAM 2% layers you love to brag about - they're not going to happen any more after the publish.
Message Edited by UmmonPrime on 03-11-2004 12:33 PM
I ran a large number of tests on TC last night using pretty bad (aweq ~4-500) resources and I wasn't getting results as bad as he's posted. I would estimate HAM in the 80's, and again, that was using terrible resources at all three levels- layer, segment and glove.Don't forget that resource quality plays a *huge* role under the new system. The 4-500 point differential between the stuff I had to work with on TC and the stuff available on live makes an enormous difference.
While I don't agree with this change, like it or not, it's going to happen. And it's not all bad. Amazing successes can push results past the previous resource cap. That in and of itself is a nice boost. Amazing successes are also a *lot* easier to come by- I was trying to test something on which I only got 'great' successes last night and it took me 5! items before I finally got one in which I had gotten no amazing successes on (and these were 3-4 point experiments). Likewise, critical failures have gone way down, although not to zero. In about 100 crafts/experiments last night I got two critical failures, one on an assembly and one on an experiment. And I don't have any experiment/assembly skill tapes on TC.
Message Edited by JaatoWaals on 03-11-2004 01:37 PM
Message Edited by Ail on 03-11-2004 10:35 AM
I also think he has more invested in being a top armorsmith than the rest of us. Personally, I'm going to be too busy enjoying the Jedi hunts and/or my new (pre-nerf) scythe blades to worry about crafting armor for a long time.
UmmonPrime wrote:
I think Ali is has more denial then the rest of us.
JaatoWaals wrote:I ran a large number of tests on TC last night using pretty bad (aweq ~4-500) resources and I wasn't getting results as bad as he's posted. Also, don't forget that resource quality plays a *huge* role under the new system. The 4-500 point differential between the stuff I had to work with on TC and the stuff available on live makes an enormous difference.
While I don't agree with this change, like it or not, it's going to happen. And it's not all bad. Amazing successes can push results past the previous resource cap. That in and of itself is a nice boost. Amazing successes are also a *lot* easier to come by- I was trying to test something on which I only got 'great' successes last night and it took me 5! items before I finally got one in which I had gotten no amazing successes on (and these were 3-4 point experiments). Likewise, critical failures have gone way down, although not to zero. In about 100 crafts/experiments last night I got two critical failures, one on an assembly and one on an experiment. And I don't have any experiment/assembly skill tapes on TC.
I do believe that this will further distance the established master crafter from the novice and give the master craftsman even more market power, but that's a policy argument that I've been ever since I got word of this. In general, master armorsmiths with high quality resources and skill tapes can expect maybe a 10% increase in HAM costs, or perhaps even less on some items, somewhat more on others. At the same time you'll notice better results in your primary experimentation line. Results for everyone else won't be as promising, and if you've only got bad resources to work with be prepared for some massive HAM increases (although nowhere near the scale that was suggested in the link above).
Twenty posts it took to get this information. I was trying to find a statement from you on this before and there was nothing. I appreciate you posting some test results. Thank you.
Padre
Ail wrote:
Maybe you will believe Jaato if you don't believe me...
Message Edited by Ail on 03-11-2004 10:35 AM
You talk down to the rest of us cause you think of yourself as so great. Please get off your high horse and realize not all of us are sitting as good as you.
Ok so Padre, you did not understand the change and were just trying to get information.
So why are you posting on every board against them, linking information that Jaato confirms is more than dubious ?
UmmonPrime wrote:
Ail wrote:
Maybe you will believe Jaato if you don't believe me...
Message Edited by Ail on 03-11-2004 10:35 AM
You talk down to the rest of us cause you think of yourself as so great. Please get off your high horse and realize not all of us are sitting as good as you.
Sorry, thought I had commented on this before. I think there's an extensive post in which I discuss the changes around here somewhere but it probably fell way down 
Short summary: Expect HAM costs for established masters to rise maybe 10-20%. At the same time, effectiveness/special resists will be able to be slightly higher. Note that depending on how you experiment, you could actually end up with lower HAM costs than currently exist- for example, 0/0/0 HAM layers will actually be easier to make, as will 5% base resistance layers. When using high aweq resources they'll be a bit of a trade off in the other category, but judicious use of resources can help alleviate that.
For everyone else, expect to see correspondingly worse results the lower you are/worse resources you have. If you are using bad resources, don't expect to be able to use your points in another catgory- i.e.: if you use resources with low sr/oq, you're not going to have any experimentation points left over to put into encumbrance once you've capped the base resistances.
Shortest version: If you're an established master armorsmith, this patch should make things interesting, but isn't a major nerf. Some things will be better, some worse. If you're not, well, you get screwed. I've been strongly arguing against this change for just this very reason, but for some reason the developers think their grasp of antitrust economics is better than mine and that somehow this change will reduce the market power of established crafters. Go figure 
Forget pre-nerf stuff, it sounds like this is going to drive the price of armor made with top quality resources by 12 and 11 point 'smiths into the stratosphere. While there may be tons of master armorsmiths, I doubt many of them are actually producing armor using top quality stuff - the rate at which I sold out of some junk kiirium and axidite when I put it up on my vendor during some house cleaning proves that to me.
This sounds like it's going to drive the wedge between the elite 'smiths and the resource-strapped masters and non-masters in even further. I'm honestly speaking on this as a third party - my operation using some of the best materials to hit the server and 1 extra point, but I'm so small I really don't show up on the radar.
I feel for the dozens of no-name masters whose tents I pass by as I'm wandering the galaxy. Chances are they don't read these forums and don't know that soon their best will soon be even further seperated from the server's elite.
DirthNader wrote:
Forget pre-nerf stuff, it sounds like this is going to drive the price of armor made with top quality resources by 12 and 11 point 'smiths into the stratosphere. While there may be tons of master armorsmiths, I doubt many of them are actually producing armor using top quality stuff - the rate at which I sold out of some junk kiirium and axidite when I put it up on my vendor during some house cleaning proves that to me.
This sounds like it's going to drive the wedge between the elite 'smiths and the resource-strapped masters and non-masters in even further. I'm honestly speaking on this as a third party - my operation using some of the best materials to hit the server and 1 extra point, but I'm so small I really don't show up on the radar.
I feel for the dozens of no-name masters whose tents I pass by as I'm wandering the galaxy. Chances are they don't read these forums and don't know that soon their best will soon be even further seperated from the server's elite.
I have been wondering for a while if those small AS really actually sell much aside from their guilds and a few friends currently.
It's extrapolation but I would expect on Valcyn there are 4-5 of us Master AS that share over 80% of the composite market....
That or I am grossly under stating the daily sales of armor....