Armorsmith Archive
Thread: How to make Armor Smith more fun
Skadoink
Fri Jul 23, 2004 6:26 am
#14
Speaking as a starting armoursmith I'm glad that some of the masters have recognised some of the problems with newer characters.
Basically the problems for starting and earlyarmoursmiths are:
- Needs a lot of cash and resources, ie the support of a guild or a long established, rich character
- Cannot make saleable armour until later levels (Can make better saleable bone armour than mabari pretty much at any time!)
- Experimentation rolls fail very often, together with lack of experimentation points makes experimentation pointless. (ie, points to grinding asthe onlyway forward)
- Armour experimentation tapes are incredibly expensive and hard to come by. Almost seems that only masters or someone incredibly lucky will have any
- Cannot compete on any level with a master (not on quality, encubrance or price) Not suggesting that they should be the equal, but it's a problem to overcome. Luckily most master seem to concentrate on Comp and sometimes Ubese, so there is often a gap in the market for low-mid level AS to build armour for similar characters. Again this is another aspect that drives people into grinding.
So, with this in mindthere area couple of extra suggestions I would make.
1) Allow bone armour to give armour xp. (Possibly as well as general crafting as opposed to instead of). This will allow novice armoursmiths to actually be able to make saleable armor and gain experience from it. Obviously the kinetic hole is a problem but generally you can fine voritor segments on the bazaars at cheap prices (100-500) which will make a useable (if not stunning against creatures) set of armour.
2) Change the Techniques line to allow slightly better experimentation and success chance at lower levels. Not necessarily by much, but enough to allow an AS to experiment without having failures half the time. (Which seems to have happened to me) Say, for example Novice +20 armour exp, each box of tecnique gives +15, with a futher +20 at master. Again, gives an AS more of a chance to make a saleable set of armour at lower levels, but still not one that would compete with a master. (And would still fail reasonable often)
3) GIVE US A TOOLKIT!!!!!!! Query on this though, I have seen anecdotal evidence (rumours in other words) that the crafters apron schematic will very rarely learn as an armorsmiths apron, but have yet to see any hard evidence for this, and almost every leaned contributor to the board says they don't exist. BUT I have never seen anything official on this. So. Has it been confirmed by the devs that and armour exp/assembly toolkit/apron/robe definately does or does not exist?
4) There was something else but I changed my mind on it and it would cause more problems than it would solve 
So anyway - there are my suggestions to add to the list. So SOE, end of next week then yes?
Regards
Finegold12
Fri Jul 23, 2004 9:11 am
#15
>>>How to make Armor Smith more fun<<< If it was anymore fun - I'd burst in a joyful gooy mess.
Any of the changes mentioned would be cool with me.
Any of the changes mentioned would be cool with me.
DoWei
Fri Jul 23, 2004 11:37 am
#16
I'd be all for that whole Armorsmith Crafting Apron if I wasn't a Wookie. I really, truly wish they would make all of the items like that wearable by everyone. As a Wookie, you are already weak in battle against anything major (I know we are getting armor in a few days) but why penalize us in crafting as well? I can't imagine any reason why a Wookie wouldn't be able to wear an apron, I have no problem wearing a skirt as it is! 
)
Other than that, at this point, I welcome the challenges and changes that take place over the next few months. If nothing else, it will make all of us take our crafting off of autopilot.
)Other than that, at this point, I welcome the challenges and changes that take place over the next few months. If nothing else, it will make all of us take our crafting off of autopilot.
Keaka26
Fri Jul 23, 2004 1:14 pm
#17
Alanis wrote:
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In that link a person on the Valcyn server says they make full comp suits 69% base, 80% kinetic with like 450/450/520 HAM...I have yet to see a single suit like that on bloodfin, or even CLOSE to that for that matter, nothing even lower than 800 for any of the 3 stats that Ive seen...
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I think you missed the (63%)
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80% kinetic light stuff (63% base) around 450/450/520 or so and 80% kinetic 69% base around 700/700/780
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His 69% is over 700s. Curently on BloodfinI can make 72% base Composite that still wieghs decent. Im shure i could match that easly but my Question is this. Would you be willing to pay what I get for my 39% Stun with 67% base at Full HAM. Thats why i dont make it becasue everyone would consider this bad Armor. They take the Stun and with a slice easly goes over the 80% base and I have several pieces that are 80% Base after slice. Again you couldnt even think about equiping more then a few pieces before Buffs.
Whoops, I had originally typed 63, then went back and scanned it quick and saw the 69...
Either way, I would still buy the 63% base 80% kinetic and pray for a good base slice. And I wouldnt even mind getting encumbrance slices. Also, I'd only really need boots, gloves, helm and chestplate. Please PM your pricing for this low ham (63/80) kinetic composite, and we'll work something out.
Ryche_Mykola
Fri Jul 23, 2004 1:21 pm
#18
Alanis wrote:
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As far as HAM costs. Most of us don't experiment on it. Why you ask? Because why spend an experiment point on a bicep/bracer/boots/gloves to lower 1 off the health encumbrance when you could raise the resists by 3%. If I experimented on the HAM and it lowered it like 2 points on the health,action, AND mind on the biceps/bracers/boots, then it would be more worth it
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But when you start with layers and save 1-2 point and the same on the segment and final Assyamble you save about 6/6/6HAM on a complete set. Multiply this by 9 Pieces and you are saving over 50/50/50 on a set. Thats alot. We simple dont do it because secondary stats and HAM mean nothing at this point.
I never said experimenting on layers and segments wasn't worth it. I said Bracers/Biceps/Gloves/Boots.
Alanis
Fri Jul 23, 2004 1:25 pm
#19
Does anyone have the formula for figuring HAM on Armor? I know I have saw it before and cant remember were. Once I get an idea what I need to make I will see how goodI can make it. I know my base unlayered stuff is at about 56% base. One 14% kinetic layer would give me 80% Kinetic and should raise the base to at least 60%. At that point I could take a look. What HAM would you like me to try for? 400s 500s?
Keaka26
Fri Jul 23, 2004 2:02 pm
#20
I'd be looking for around no more than 500 to all stats. The closer to 400 the better. All my secondaries are already maxed as a Mon Calamari as it is. The health and action secondaries max at like 450/425 I believe. With just brandy, I could get away with not using Doc buffs at all, especially if I use the Helm, Gloves, Boots, Chestplate composite glitch during those times...
Im excited to hopefully being able to get my hands on some low HAM composite...Are you willing to do a low HAM set of Ubese also? Of course the composite would be priority...Just like to hear whats out there...
Alanis
Fri Jul 23, 2004 2:11 pm
#21
Well I know on Bloodfin Im one of the few that can make 78% Ubese. The problem is in Ubese to lower HAM you have to take points out of the Kinetic. My base on that stuff is only like 20%. I will have to see what the HAM is because I never look at it. Contact me in game and I will see what I can make in both.
speardancer
Fri Jul 23, 2004 2:31 pm
#22
I think most of the orignal post is a good idea...
I definetely disagree with the stat-drop on factory made items tho. expecialy with the fact that factory made items are required as components, even when you hand make armor.
However, If the suggestion for improving dropped loots, and making HAM mean something were implemented, these 2 things would accomplish most of the same things...
Why? Factory runs of armor call for large amounts of components. Looted components come in small amounts. This means the truely exceptional armor, made with looted components, will always be hand made, not factory made.
And along with making HAM mean something, I'd also like to see the experimentation related to HAM to mean something. Right now, one reason that noone experiments on HAM, is that the return on the points spend is pitiful. I can double the protections by maxing out a line of experimentaion, but I can only make about a 10% change in the HAM for the same number of points? OK, maybe my numbers are off a bit there, but the point is still valid. You don't get the same value add for experimenting on HAM, as you do on resists.
That needs to change.
I definetely disagree with the stat-drop on factory made items tho. expecialy with the fact that factory made items are required as components, even when you hand make armor.
However, If the suggestion for improving dropped loots, and making HAM mean something were implemented, these 2 things would accomplish most of the same things...
Why? Factory runs of armor call for large amounts of components. Looted components come in small amounts. This means the truely exceptional armor, made with looted components, will always be hand made, not factory made.
And along with making HAM mean something, I'd also like to see the experimentation related to HAM to mean something. Right now, one reason that noone experiments on HAM, is that the return on the points spend is pitiful. I can double the protections by maxing out a line of experimentaion, but I can only make about a 10% change in the HAM for the same number of points? OK, maybe my numbers are off a bit there, but the point is still valid. You don't get the same value add for experimenting on HAM, as you do on resists.
That needs to change.
Alanis
Fri Jul 23, 2004 2:39 pm
#23
I agree my idea on the Factory was probly not the best Idea around. It was just a thought. My main idea was to stop the Armorsmiths like myself from stockpiling Millions of top resources and Making Factory runs of 1000s of Armor Sets that lower level AS cant make. I know the Composite Market on Bloodfin is so loaded with good Composite im selling Sliced 39% Stun 80-85% Pieces for 50-75K.I used to get 150k a Piece for lower stuff unsliced. And even at this price I cant sell much.
If you do like the HAM mean Something idea then please sign my Petiotion to maybe get the Devs to look and talk about it. I can tell you back in the beta Days before Food and Doctor buffs you couldnt wear Armor over your Stats. When the buffs and food came along most people felt this was a bug getting Buffs and putting on Heavy Armor. It seems the Devs just ignored this because Armor still wasnt very high and if they stoped it most people couldnt wear good Enough Armor to get out and fight. This simply isnt true now and they will Nerph us one way or the other.
Ryche_Mykola
Sat Jul 24, 2004 12:18 am
#24
royalewitcheez wrote:
Factories are used to ensure quality, not reduce it.
/clap
/applaud
/agree
As far as HAM costs. Most of us don't experiment on it. Why you ask? Because why spend an experiment point on a bicep/bracer/boots/gloves to lower 1 off the health encumbrance when you could raise the resists by 3%. If I experimented on the HAM and it lowered it like 2 points on the health,action, AND mind on the biceps/bracers/boots, then it would be more worth it.
Alanis
Sat Jul 24, 2004 12:28 am
#25
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As far as HAM costs. Most of us don't experiment on it. Why you ask? Because why spend an experiment point on a bicep/bracer/boots/gloves to lower 1 off the health encumbrance when you could raise the resists by 3%. If I experimented on the HAM and it lowered it like 2 points on the health,action, AND mind on the biceps/bracers/boots, then it would be more worth it
________________________________________________________________________________________________________
But when you start with layers and save 1-2 point and the same on the segment and final Assyamble you save about 6/6/6HAM on a complete set. Multiply this by 9 Pieces and you are saving over 50/50/50 on a set. Thats alot. We simple dont do it because secondary stats and HAM mean nothing at this point.
Keaka26
Sat Jul 24, 2004 12:36 am
#26
http://forums.station.sony.com/swg/board/message?board.id=armorsmith&message.id=56341&highlight=ham+ubese#M56341
In that link a person on the Valcyn server says they make full comp suits 69% base, 80% kinetic with like 450/450/520 HAM...I have yet to see a single suit like that on bloodfin, or even CLOSE to that for that matter, nothing even lower than 800 for any of the 3 stats that Ive seen...
I would gladly pay for a suit with such low HAM...As would any of my guild members.