Armorsmith Archive
Thread: A different point of view on the CURB for AS's
Plonger-I see your point and i agree with you to some extent, but i think there will be some fun in finding a balance between durability and the resists, i have a feeling maxing all the resists in all stages will be very bad armor, and the fun will be in finding the right balance.
mistereous1- 1. Maybe my point didn't come out exactly the way i meant it. I agree that people should speak up now if there is something in BETA they don't like. That's what testing is for so you can find bugs and problems, and also get feedback from the community. I think it's a bit of an overraction to predit the apocolypse of crafting based on a few weeks of BETA testing, that was more my point.
2. I compete as a 10pt smith as well, but i know a lot of people who don't, or don't think they can so they don't even bother. They see that price tag of 20M (or greater) to become a competitive smith and this discourages them from the beginning. I think i can compete as a 10pter, but there's a lot of people who don't see it this way. I think the devs are trying to make it less daunting to a new AS.
3. Well yes i did kind of contradict myself, and i think the fun is in the struggle, but if the struggle is too much then it's not fun anymore. I see building a business is fun, but in order to do this you need to have a quality product. I think this new design gives less experienced crafters a better chance to make that quality product, so they have a chance to start that struggle.
4. I definantly agree with you here, but there are some problems. The Devs have screwed up the demand in the game, which would be my biggest complaint. I am having trouble verbalizing what i am trying to say here, so if it's confusing please tell me... If they are going to set up their system the way you said, then they need to create more demand for the less difficult crafted goods. If they want to set up a crafting profession for the casual player (like Arch) then their needs to be enough demand in the game to sustain casual crafters. But they have set it up so there is a disproportionate amount of demand for armor/weapons as there is for more easily crafted goods. This will draw the casual player to the harder professions, then the casual crafter will get discouraged because it's too complex for him/her to compete, but there isn't enough business in the easy crafting professions to "make a living" There are two ways to fix this, make the more complex/high demand professions easier or make a higher demand for the easier professions products.
5. I think there will still be a difference between a An uber-AS and a not as skilled As. There is still RIS, Mandolorian, BH armor to sell, plus a truly Uber AS will be able to stock his/her vendor with all the different types of armor, while a not as experienced one will have to just find one type and start his own Niche. Plus a 12pter will still be able to make more durable armor with high resists and less penalties (not rests penalties, but movement penalties like speed and stuff), and from what i read these penalties will be signifigant, making those 2 extra experience points valuable still (just not as valuable as they were before)
Circe' Pojia Message Edited by linusboarder on 04-12-2005 02:24 PM
linusboarder wrote:
Okay i just wanted to say a few things about the CURB. I notice AS's are concerned with a few aspects of it, but i think there are some major flaws with AS right now and i think, from what i hear and see of the CURB, some of those issues are being dealt with nicely. In saying that I just wanted to state my point of view. I am not flaming anyone, or saying any viewpoint is wrong, but i just have a few questions, and points to make.
1. First I think it's still too early to (over)react to BETA testing, especially with resources and stuff. If Anyone remembers JTL, shipwrights resources were different in BETA than they were in live. the Devs didn't want to give anyone an unfair advantage just because they were testing BETA (if they were the same, it was only because those resources weren't spawning yet so no one could collect them anyways.) Maybe the devs won't change them from testing to live, but maybe they will, we don't know so to react to it so vehemently seems premature to me.
2.Secondly, Most AS's are businessmen too, it comes with the profession, so i'll speak in a business sense. Most people's business in this game grew because they made a quality product, which grew a reputation and now they have a ton of repeat business. But another key to that was getting new customers to become repeat business. SWG crafting is struggling right now because they can't get new business. It's almost impossible for a new AS to compete with a well established one. On my server it costs upwards of 20M to become a 12pt. smith, and do you know how hard it is to sell enough 10pt. armor to make 20M of profit... it's very difficult. Well this will drive away many of SWG's new crafting customers. SWG has THE BEST crafting system for MMORPG's but if new crafters can't compete a then it's all for not because they won't be attracting new customers, thereby dooming their product.
3. I realize some people have worked very hard for their stuff (myself included). They have invested a ton of time, effort, credits, and RL money into making their AS business what it is today, but this is a game. I don't mean to sound harsh or demeaning, but this isn't life. What does having a 100M+ (or higher depending on the server) credit business get you? To me the fun is in creating that business, not in having the credits. I could easily make 100M credits with her if i wanted to, but that's not my goal. My goal is to have fun with the character, i only make creds to suppliment my fun. The fun (for me anyways) in being an AS is two-fold. First it is to tinker and play around and experiment with a whole lot of different armor. I am excited for the CURB because it sounds like it's going to give us a whole lot of things to tinker with. Second Building a business is fun. It gives the crafters a second dimension that other professions just don't have. I need to learn to advertise and create a reputation, keep up with inventory, keep vendors stocked, advertise, keep prices the same. I am not a business owner in RL, but this gives me a small taste of how hard, and rewarding, that job can be.
4. I touched on this earlier, but making crafting a little simpler gives casual players a chance. Do i think it should go to Arch where experimentation does near-nothing? no i don't think that at all. But i do think that a casual player should be able to at least compete with an uber-AS. Casual players just can't craft right now unless they are Arches. It's too complex and time consuming, and demanding. Some players just can't log in every night and craft. After a few weeks/months/years this becomes a HUGE disadvantage. Now i am not saying make it easy to be an AS, but casual players need a chance to thrive, and grow into the profession instead of being muscled out from the very beginning. If a noob walked into the game and started AS right now would they have a chance at surviving? probably not without a TON of work, and does a casual player really have that much effort to put into the game? probably not. Especially since good Wooly hide is so expensive that a casual/newb AS probably can't afford it, increasing the differential between elite and casual player (and increasing the chances that that casual player will go bankrupt/quit)
5.Now here is a Question which i hope will elicit some very interesting answers. Why are you an Armorsmith? The next question is: Why does this make the game fun for you?
For example here's my answers to those Questions:
Why are you an Armorsmith? I am an AS for 2 reasons. One it allows me to tinker around with things. Two, It allows me to build a business from the ground up. I have to meet people, casually drop my business into conversation without being pushy, and do all the things that makes a business successfull.
Why does this make the game fun for you?I love to tinker with stuff. I don't just make the standard Ubese and Comp armor. My favorite is padded, because it allows me to tinker. I have made energy padded, Kinetic Padded, combo of both, LOW HAM padded with kinetic, LOW HAM with enenrgy, LOW HAM combo Energy/Kinetic, plus i get to play with a whole bunch of customization options. Padded armor is an endless supply of tinkering, which keeps me happy. As for my second reason, i love being able to orginize a business from the ground up. I've never really had a chance to do it before, and this gives me the opportunity to see what it's like. I find it facinating.
Edited for a better title, i didn't like the old one, might do it again
Message Edited by linusboarder on 04-11-2005 01:25 AM
I honestly see where you are coming from and agree with alot of it. Unfortunatly if I'm going to start from scratch, it will be with something completely different.
Holocron, the original designer of the game, worked off the philosophy that an in game economy should have catastrophic events ocure which provide churn in the economy.Something must happen from time to timewhich motivates people who are at the top of a crafting profession to move on so that the crafters below them can move up. This seems to be exactly what is happening here.
I actually felt pretty good as I was dropping my AS skill boxes last night. No more running harvs. No more irrational customers. No more factory runs that are not complete the next day when I log in. No more endless hide hunting. No more holding onto SP which I use skills from maybe once a week. I will now be able to log in and not be obligated to anyone. I can go off and adventure, making money as I do in orderto buy the small subset of things I will need to play.
It might be a good thing that they crapped on AS for me anyways.
Sounds like you were ready to leave AS...I on the other hand have been a Master AS since September. Didn't make my first set of comp until October, my first vendor didn't go up until November, and now I'm selling over a million credits worth a day at 25% below market prices. My point is you really don't have to shake up the top smith's, and entry is not as impossible as it's being made out to be. I've been playing the game since June 04 so in less than a years time, I've gone from noob to one of the top smith's on the server. You get out of it what you put into it.
Valkyrie36 wrote:
I honestly see where you are coming from and agree with alot of it. Unfortunatly if I'm going to start from scratch, it will be with something completely different.
Holocron, the original designer of the game, worked off the philosophy that an in game economy should have catastrophic events ocure which provide churn in the economy.Something must happen from time to timewhich motivates people who are at the top of a crafting profession to move on so that the crafters below them can move up. This seems to be exactly what is happening here.
I actually felt pretty good as I was dropping my AS skill boxes last night. No more running harvs. No more irrational customers. No more factory runs that are not complete the next day when I log in. No more endless hide hunting. No more holding onto SP which I use skills from maybe once a week. I will now be able to log in and not be obligated to anyone. I can go off and adventure, making money as I do in orderto buy the small subset of things I will need to play.
It might be a good thing that they crapped on AS for me anyways.
I would have stayed if it remained interesting and the resources were not expanded. I would have probably had enough resources to last me a few years otherwise. But I can't argue your point...it did give me an easy way out. Its so easy to get stuck on doing one thing in this game, especially something as interesting as AS was. If the intent was to lessen the addiction factor of professions like AS so folks expand into new things...this definatly met that goal for me.
mistereous1 wrote:
Sounds like you were ready to leave AS...I on the other hand have been a Master AS since September. Didn't make my first set of comp until October, my first vendor didn't go up until November, and now I'm selling over a million credits worth a day at 25% below market prices. My point is you really don't have to shake up the top smith's, and entry is not as impossible as it's being made out to be. I've been playing the game since June 04 so in less than a years time, I've gone from noob to one of the top smith's on the server. You get out of it what you put into it.
Valkyrie36 wrote:
I honestly see where you are coming from and agree with alot of it. Unfortunatly if I'm going to start from scratch, it will be with something completely different.
Holocron, the original designer of the game, worked off the philosophy that an in game economy should have catastrophic events ocure which provide churn in the economy.Something must happen from time to timewhich motivates people who are at the top of a crafting profession to move on so that the crafters below them can move up. This seems to be exactly what is happening here.
I actually felt pretty good as I was dropping my AS skill boxes last night. No more running harvs. No more irrational customers. No more factory runs that are not complete the next day when I log in. No more endless hide hunting. No more holding onto SP which I use skills from maybe once a week. I will now be able to log in and not be obligated to anyone. I can go off and adventure, making money as I do in orderto buy the small subset of things I will need to play.
It might be a good thing that they crapped on AS for me anyways.
Message Edited by Valkyrie36 on 04-13-2005 09:40 AM