Armorsmith Archive

Thread: *deleted*

Else-Whira
Tue May 03, 2005 9:38 am
#14

*pulled - sorry I offended anyone with my ideas*

Message Edited by Else-Whira on 05-04-2005 10:39 AM





Colonel Else Whira - Entertainer and Ace Pilot

Kallie - Trader (structures)


Caution! Reading my posts can lead to this.
ZinaTheMaker
Tue May 03, 2005 10:21 am
#15

hmm....is there a band camp i can go to?



Zina
Best served chilled
--Qilue-UCW--
Tue May 03, 2005 11:54 am
#16








Else-Whira wrote:
Proposal: Entertainer Group


In my proposal entertainer commands and missions should no longer be tied to combat groups at all. Instead we should have a system in place that works in three ways. First aspect we will talk about is the chat. We already know the best way to handle that and it's really very straight forward and easy to get started. The novice entertainer skill should create a chat tab called Entertainer (or /e for chat command purpose). This would give all entertainers on the sever a global chat with each other as soon as they log in. This would replace group chat communication for entertainer and have the added bonus of helping the entertainers find each other for the sake of creating bands, sharing experience and creating a more social game for those enertainers who play on less populated servers.


I really don't like this idea...


It is my oppinion that /groupchat helped to ruin the entertainer perfession to start with. WhenI first started out as a musician, I noticed that all the ATK entertainers spoke solely in groupchat. they only broke off into spatial to greet new commers to the cantina.. I know now that this was because of AFK and BOT spam.


But We have even gotten into the habit of doing it in quite, spam free cantinas too..New people walk in, we say HI, and then we go back to our group chat.. leaving the person looking for heals sitting in a silent cantina where no one is taking..


So I really think we need to STOP relying on private chats, and start using spatial more often, if a "client" comes in they can join teh conversation.. and feel more welcome and included..



I just fear that if this were to happen we would never hear another entertainer speek again!!









Signed, Kyo'nne Ilhar'dro
K
airn Medical Regiment, Chief Medic
T
aeor Quartermaster

"I want to find something I've wanted all along... Somewhere I belong"

~ J'inx
[Bria] ~ Kaji'ra [Starsider] ~ Qilue [Corbantis] ~ Bell'an [Valcyn] ~

NeillM
Tue May 03, 2005 2:24 pm
#17

I rather like the sound of this idea too.



- Neeill Orkaorchi, Elder Entertainer/Elder Musician, Intrepid
- Nai'ren, Trader, Intrepid
- ATK and enjoy your day

Drop Off Vendor: FOE Canyon, Talus (4408, 2199)

Arrogance is unavoidable. The trick is to find an arrogance you can live with
FuschiaD
Tue May 03, 2005 2:36 pm
#18

Nice idea Else.


I would far rather use groupchat than spatial for various reasons, the primary one being, it filters out the nonsense and clutter. I might be a social player, but that doesn't mean I want the idiots of my server hearing everything I say.






~*~ F U S C H I A D A R K W A L K E R ~*~
Yes, I'm a respec Jedi. Get over it.
~*~ A V A D I H A L O N A - S O E P ~*~
Entertainer For Life - COMPNOR Eye Candy

"You don't really rank around here unless you've been flamed by Oben, trolled by Mono, set straight by Geen, got caught in a love triangle between Cherry and Anoq, had your house decorated by Kipera, hugged by Esin, fondled by Fuschia, had IG respond with something inane and nonsensical, or at the very least been (a.) asked "can I have your stuff" or (b.) been accused of being a Todd by any number of random Tarquinian posters." --TalonKarrdeTN/Tyndaleon


LyteFoot
Tue May 03, 2005 2:58 pm
#19

The location dependence for experience is fine but having a separate command to create a band bothers me a bit. The new interface for inviting people to your ship is annoying at best. I might only want to invite one person but every single person within a given radious of me is in the list and I have to hunt for that person. Now take that scenario to a situation where I want to do a jam in front of Theed spaceport, the list would be HUGE. It also makes adding people as they arrive cumbersome if not plain old impossible. Many bands and group dances don't start out planned but are impromptu and people come and go over many hours. It is a lot simpler to either 1. let us have larger group or 2. allow for the concept of raid groups. Raid groups exist in EQ2 and WOW and are made by having multiple groups join together into this raid group. In those games it means that you don't get specific experience from dungeons or certain loot since you are in a raid and it could eventually mean the same here but for starters it could simply mean you get no combat experience while in a raid group. My only concern with raid groups is I don't know if they can be shrink and grow like a normal group. That ability to easily add and remove people from the group is very important.



Elwyn LyteFoot - Corbantis server
Else-Whira
Tue May 03, 2005 4:28 pm
#20



LyteFoot wrote:
The location dependence for experience is fine but having a separate command to create a band bothers me a bit. The new interface for inviting people to your ship is annoying at best. I might only want to invite one person but every single person within a given radious of me is in the list and I have to hunt for that person. Now take that scenario to a situation where I want to do a jam in front of Theed spaceport, the list would be HUGE. It also makes adding people as they arrive cumbersome if not plain old impossible. Many bands and group dances don't start out planned but are impromptu and people come and go over many hours. It is a lot simpler to either 1. let us have larger group or 2. allow for the concept of raid groups. Raid groups exist in EQ2 and WOW and are made by having multiple groups join together into this raid group. In those games it means that you don't get specific experience from dungeons or certain loot since you are in a raid and it could eventually mean the same here but for starters it could simply mean you get no combat experience while in a raid group. My only concern with raid groups is I don't know if they can be shrink and grow like a normal group. That ability to easily add and remove people from the group is very important.




You would only be able to add players that had at least the novice entertainer skill and only while within an area that had an experience sharing zone (cantina, theater, player home or hotel.) To have a jam in front of the theed star port for instance you'd have to meetup in the hotel or cantina first to add people to your band or walk over to the hotel to add them if they came over during your performance and you felt like adding them to your band on the spur of the moment. You wouldn't have a giant list of people unless every single person in the zone you were using was an entertainer.





Colonel Else Whira - Entertainer and Ace Pilot

Kallie - Trader (structures)


Caution! Reading my posts can lead to this.
Jagii
Tue May 03, 2005 10:51 pm
#21



I like your ideas, but in my opinion, they areweighed down bypre-existing code - code that isn't condusive to your goals. I hate to use your thread to introduce my own ideas, buthere are my comments and recommendations, if you care to read them:


Entertainer chat: Sounds good.

Experience and Bands:

The current group experiencemechanicis not working as intended. From what I've read, the group experience bonus exists to encourage entertainers to group together. Sure itworks -I see someentertainers working together to make a performance; in contrast, Ialso see many entertainers and AFKersdoing their ownthing. In the second case, it doesn't make sense that these entertainers get enhanced experience when they aren't workin' with the group. Therefore, experience should not have a direct relationship with group size. So the question I pose to myself is this: How do I design an entertainer group system that meets your goals? That is, one that gives masters a feature, increases experience for all, andimprovesperformances?


Here is my heavy modification of your proposal. I'll try to keep it simple.


Master entertainers, musicians, and dancers canlead entertainer groups. Entertainer groups can only exist in municipal areas orcamps. Leaders of entertainer groupscan:

- Invite, boot,disband,and assign new leadership.

- Start/stop group dances.

- Start/stop group music.

- Do band flourishes.


By creating an entertainer group, the bandleader also creates anentertainer zone, which encompassesa large space around the leader. [If it's in the wild, the zone should encompass a whole camp. If it's in a city, the zone should be large enough to fill a theater.]

- Any battle-fatigued peoplecan recieve healing if they are in the zone.

- Any entertainers that are in the group, in thezone, andentertainingwill receive healing experience.All entertainers in the group geta highamount of dance/music experience according to their individual levels.

(I realize that thiswill putbots in the starport. Perhaps certainareas should be off-limits for experience and healing?)


So what happens when there isn't a master to lead a group? I'm not sure. Maybe the entertainerscan make a combat group andget experience like we do now? Or they can create an entertainer group, butcan't get access to the advanced features, like entertainer zones orhigh levels of experience. Again, I'm not sure.


[[[ If youreally want to get crazy, here aresome additional ideas:

- Ambient music

- Leaders give experience: Leaders can assign experience as they deem fit (under certain restrictions, of course). Since the game is obviously incapable of rating a performance, why not let the leader do it?

- Alternate form of bandflourishing: When a leader does a dance bandflourish,the other dancers receive a system message to perform the proper flourish. If they don't do the flourish in time, they don't get the experience. ]]]


= Andrew

Chilastra.Palacek

Message Edited by Jagii on 05-03-2005 10:57 PM



"There's nothing to talk about, Becky. I'm ugly, boys don't like me, and that's it!!"
Else-Whira
Wed May 04, 2005 12:26 am
#22



--Qilue-UCW-- wrote:
I really don't like this idea... It is my oppinion that /groupchat helped to ruin the entertainer perfession to start with. When I first started out as a musician, I noticed that all the ATK entertainers spoke solely in groupchat. they only broke off into spatial to greet new commers to the cantina.. I know now that this was because of AFK and BOT spam. But We have even gotten into the habit of doing it in quite, spam free cantinas too..New people walk in, we say HI, and then we go back to our group chat.. leaving the person looking for heals sitting in a silent cantina where no one is taking.. So I really think we need to STOP relying on private chats, and start using spatial more often, if a "client" comes in they can join teh conversation.. and feel more welcome and included.. I just fear that if this were to happen we would never hear another entertainer speek again!!




Actually group chat has been the preferred method of chat for me and most entertainers I have known going all the way back to beta 3. Spatial chat has always been cluttered by system messages, NPC spam, AFK spammers, ad bots and other annoyances. Another reason it is not preferred is the very short range of spatial compared to group chat. While grouped I can talk to my friends anywhere they go in the galaxy.

This would not eliminate spatial for people like yourself that prefer to speak there, it just gives all of us entertainers a default channel to talk to each other in which is somethig a lot of us vets are doing by way of /ent chats started on our servers anyway.

Remember, a lot of entertainers really just like chatting with the folks who are also chatty entertainer types and aren't really looking to interact with the people who come through looking for healing.





Colonel Else Whira - Entertainer and Ace Pilot

Kallie - Trader (structures)


Caution! Reading my posts can lead to this.
LyteFoot
Wed May 04, 2005 6:14 am
#23






Else-Whira wrote:


You would only be able to add players that had at least the novice entertainer skill and only while within an area that had an experience sharing zone (cantina, theater, player home or hotel.) To have a jam in front of the theed star port for instance you'd have to meetup in the hotel or cantina first to add people to your band or walk over to the hotel to add them if they came over during your performance and you felt like adding them to your band on the spur of the moment. You wouldn't have a giant list of people unless every single person in the zone you were using was an entertainer.




Then this is far to restrictive. I can't speak for your server but on Corbantis pick up performances in areas far from cantinas are not uncommon. Just performing in front of Theed starport would be problematic. Just this past weekend a group of 5 started playing in front of the cantina, the group grew to two groups and shrunk back to one on two different occassions as people came and went. We then moved in front of the starport where we added and dropped a few people over the next 2 hours. You are suggesting that if I want to add someone I have to run all the way back to the cantina? That destroys the impromptu ability we use and enjoy. Why ask for something that limits us more than we are now? Yes it allows larger groups but only if they are preplanned and static which is counter to the entire roll many performers play.


I say they should just let groups form that are greater than 8 but once they exceed 8 no attacks can be initiated by members of the group. Now we can grow to 20 again and not create overpowering combat groups. Why make it more complicated than that?






Elwyn LyteFoot - Corbantis server
Petronela
Wed May 04, 2005 6:43 am
#24






LyteFoot wrote:



I say they should just let groups form that are greater than 8 but once they exceed 8 no attacks can be initiated by members of the group. Now we can grow to 20 again and not create overpowering combat groups. Why make it more complicated than that?








Yes, this makes sense to me and it's blonde-proof.

I rather they expand from current system then try to create completely new one.

It would only lead to confusions and more bugs.

Take away the group limit overall but make it understood if group goes over 8 members (including droids and pets) the group will not get any combat related experience and can not initiate attack.


Since this is ideas tread I would like to add one also.

Didn't think of all the possible details yet but in short it's this:

Let us "rent" high level uber NPC for personal protection.

Make the system recognizewhen/if the NPC is summoned or/and in group with someone the person/group will not gain any combat related experience.

This way we could be able to travel as we please but no one would be able to exploit it.

I think this would be most likely even more useful to crafters, since they have to be stationary in outdoors while interacting with harvesters/factories.


Basically it could be something in our data pad which we could call forward when going to more dangerous locations and the NPC would auto-attack and eliminate anything which attacks us. They could even make it a marginal credit-sink and charge small hourly fee for the times the NPC is summoned.

And of course we would have to have a choice in what it looks like and be able to play dress up with it


Deli'ah





~Deli'ah~
Ikewe
Wed May 04, 2005 7:05 am
#25

My problem with the original idea is the xp sharing. AFK is here to stay. (I've given up all hope it will ever be removed). I don't want to have to keep moving from cantina to cantina to try to find a cantina with no afkers and I don't want anyone who can't be bothered to actually "play" to get an xp boost from me. I've already freely admitted I have a serious B* attitude about this but there it is.


They should make a /band command to replace the /invite command for entertainers. The /band command would allow the entertainers to have a greater number of members (based on whatever the coding system can handle) and couldn't be exploited for combat - members get booted from the group if they go into combat. I originally thought about making it so that you couldn't enter combat but if we're performing outside and a band member gets attacked by a thug then they need to be able to run or fight or whatever they can.






Ikewe, Master Dancer, Shadowfire
When you wish upon a falling star, your dreams can come true. Unless it's really a meteorite hurtling to the Earth which will destroy all life. Then you're pretty much hosed no matter what you wish for. Unless it's death by meteor.


kirah_ashlin
Wed May 04, 2005 10:33 am
#26

I'm trying to imagine what this would do to/for Cantina Crawls and other special entertainer events. Considering the size and scope of these (remember CCs happen about every 2 weeks) I can only suspect that the restrictiveness would be as difficult to work with as the current system. We are constantly inviting people to groups throughout the Crawl as well as having people jump from one group to another.


And perhaps I'm in the minority, but I'm one of those people who prefers to talk in spatial more than group chat.

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