Armorsmith Archive

Thread: Thunderheart, would these two simple fixes solve SOE's databse problems? No flame, a sincere idea.

caddelite
Tue Mar 09, 2004 6:14 pm
#1


[Also posted on the WS Forum]


Ok, this is not just for Thunderheart to read but for every crafter who suffers from what I do. I've been mining resources since launch and a Master WS for 6+ months and AS for 2+ months. Needless to say, I've accumulated A LOT OF STUFF.


SOE is stating they are having database problems. But what is the CAUSE of these database problems? Players storing their items on vendors priced out to 9999999? No, this isn't the cause, this is an EFFECT.


The cause is contining to run launch coding when it comes to factory crates and resources.


I recommend the following two fixes to solve all of SOE's database issues. The fixes are simple and profound:


1) A factory schematic can produce 1000 items, allow factory to produce a single crate of 1000 items.


2) Allow resources to "single stack".


In terms of database load, the two simple fixes are just amazing.


Factory crates, in terms of WS and AS come out in crates of 25 or 50 items. If factories produced a single crate of 1000 items, it would make factory runs much more fun for the crafter, consider making triple layer composite or a T21 Rifle, and also REDUCE SOE's database load. A factory crate of 1000 items vs. mutiple crates of 25 items would reduce database load by 40 times. Crates of 50 items would reduce database load by 20 times.


From the crafters standpoint, being able to work witha single crate of 1000 Kinetic Layers or 1000 Advanced Power Handlers is much better than working with 20 crates of 50 Layers or 40 crates of 25 APH's. I don't know about you, but I store A LOT OF factory crates in my output hoppers, then pull them out as needed. I'm sure I'm not alone. Consider the load reduction on SOE's database if there were one pretty crate of 1000APH's that a crafter could split for any weapon they wanna make. A 40 fold reduction my fellow gamers. 40!


On resource stacking, SOE is still using launch coding to limit resource stacks to 100,000 units. A miner using (8) 13 BER Heavies even on a 60% spot can generate 89,856 units of resources a day. That's .60 times 13 BER times 60 minutes times 24 hours time 8 harvestors. Most resources are in shifting longer than a week too. This arguement is just for 13 BER on 60%. Do the math on 90+ spots.


Even (8) 10 BER mediums on 80% generate 92,160 units of resources a day. And there are a lot of miners who have multiple accounts, who enter into cross server mining contracts where they provide each other with the harverstors. So factoring in the number of accounts to resources being mined can't really be considered.


Allow "one stack" resources will further reduce database load by 2 to 25 times. I recently found a killer spot of 92% Kammris Iron, I put 16 heavies on it and pulled 2.5 million units. If instead of having (25) 100k stacks, I could have one stack of 2,500k that would be JUST AWESOME.


If these two simple coding changes were made, the database load reductions would be INCREDIBLE. For each crate or stack of resource, the database has to store data to account for it. If SOE wants to limit the two biggest causes of database variables, resource stacks and factory crates are it.


Limiting vendors to 150 items will only CREATE MORE DATA. We will make more vendors to offer our wears, so this change will not reduce database load at all.


Those "scamming" with vendors to store their items, if resources and factory crate limits were raised to my suggested levels, player would be VERY inclined to pull off their resources off these vendors and restack them and put them in the bank where they really belong. Recently on our server a well known weaponsmith was using a factory to store his resources in, he neglected to pay maintenace on it and LOST all of the resources. If resources could "single stack", this guy would most likely be in business still.


So here you have it, two very simple database fixes that will reduce SOE's load and make the game MUCH MORE FUN for the crafter. With the immense reduction in database load from single stack resources and 1000 item factory crates, the reduction in database load would save SO MUCH DATA FOR SOE that limiting vendors to 150 items wouldn't be necessary.


Limiting vendors to 150 items will only generate more data as well, not reduce it. The smart crafted will sacrifice a lot, put up a factory and store their items in the input hopper of the factory. A factory, any kind, is a better storage device than a vendor, bank or house because the input hopper can hold 100 items. If the 150 vendor cap, all those items stored on vendors will simply be re-located to factories. A vendor limit WILL NOT reduce database load, only increase it.


So let's address the causes together here, not limit what crafter have been used to for months.


Signing petitions to stop changes already in motion will not help the community. Coming up with simple solutions, presenting them in a friendly helpful manner with the intent to encourage needed changes is the way to go.


If you feel these two simple changes will help you and SOE, simply keep it bumped. That's all I ask.


A third idea down the road, which I think would be great for all crafters, is to change the way in which resources appear in your inventory. I'd like to see the NAME of the resource, not the type, when I look for it in my inventory. It's really an issue of effiency. When you have 8 different Coppers, 5 different Irons, 10 different Steels in your main backpack, it's tough to find them.


We can already disern if a resource is Copper, Iron or Steel from the COLOR of the Icon. Change the text to the name of the resource and put a fancy, trick "C" "I" or S" on the resource Icon. I think this third fix would makea lot of crafters even more happy. But first things first, let's fix the database issues and vendor abuse and make crafting FUN again with 1000 item factory crates and "single stack" resources!


Malfunction

Master WS/AS - Radiant Server



Precision Industries -5400 3434 Theed Naboo, 900m South of Theed Starport
+12 Experimentation Weapons & Composite Armor
One of the longest operating Weaponsmith's on Radiant
40% Stun 67% Base Composite Armor NERFED!
80% Blast 73% Energy & Kinetic Armor NERFED!
for custom orders, please email Precision in-game
BlumFatch
Tue Mar 09, 2004 6:20 pm
#2


Nice post.


Nice idea.


If they won't let me store more items, please please let my items take up less space.

Message Edited by BlumFatch on 03-09-2004 08:21 PM



ivi BLUM ivi
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(Blum has gone missing please help me find him.)

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Ceroshin
Tue Mar 09, 2004 9:41 pm
#3

*bump*

Excellent idea.



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Masen
Tue Mar 09, 2004 9:55 pm
#4

/vote


This is probably the best idea I heard in a while for helping solve the DB bloat.





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EArindel
Tue Mar 09, 2004 10:01 pm
#5

I'd like to see some feedback from SOE on this.

You might even add a way to recombine items into a factory crate.



Aeric vo-Telon - Master Armorsmith (Retired) of Chilastra
Emissive Technologies - an Armor Crafting Company

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AtlantisCH
Wed Mar 10, 2004 12:30 am
#6

Malfunction, I know you and I are both in the same boat. Any long time crafter is. Myself I have far, far too many houses, just to enable me to store resources. I have a total of 6 houses I use, and will be borrowing another 2 this week. Why? different resources are good for different situations. Part of being a master crafter is knowing when to use these resources. If resources COULD be stacked into a one million stack, I would definately be able to cut down quite a bit on my inventory useage. Same with crates, if crates could be re-combined after being split, that would be amazing.



AtlantisCH

Master Armorsmith (Radiant)
Vendors: TBA
AtlantisCH
Wed Mar 10, 2004 12:52 am
#7

I'd love to also see loot stacking, it would be so much more convinent to stack loots into one stack (say you loot 6 geno power cubes) If they could be stacked into 1 stack with a "6" in the corner it would save EVERYONE a lot of time/hassle, when looting from the corpse they should still come off in singles, however the user should be able to combine these into one stack. I'm not sure how hard that would be to implement, but along with Malfunction's ideas, I think this would also help the database load.



AtlantisCH

Master Armorsmith (Radiant)
Vendors: TBA
Bey
Wed Mar 10, 2004 2:56 am
#8

What exactly IS the problem with the database ?


Could we get to see an example of the problem ?


I really dont see how a few hundred, or even thousand, items per user can be a problem on a properly indexed database with a sensible table setup.


Is it a poor database model ? Everything dumped into a single database ? Redundant storage ? Lack of indexes ?


We have yet to get a single clue as to what the problem actually is. Or maybe they prefer to keep that a secret ?




Xexo Sparks
No longer : Master Armorsmith / Master Merchant / Master Artisan due to lack of content for non combat characters
Rolganth
Wed Mar 10, 2004 4:21 am
#9

Nice Post. I agree


Here is a few more ideas to help reduce data base issues.


1) Player Vendors. Why not allow a Admin selection to player vendors. Doing this might reduce the total number of vendors on all the servers. What this would allow, is other crafters would have the ability to put their own crafted items up for sale on a players vendor. 2ndly It could be set so that when the item is sold the money would go directly to that crafter. an option you which could be considered is only master crafters could only be admined to a merchents vendor. Pluss You could Tie in the players vendors to the main bazaar terminals so you could search the entire galaxy for what you want. instead of searching vendor to vendor in hopes the vendor is not empty when you get there. here is my reasoning for this.


I am a master armorcrafter / merchent / artisan. I host 6 vendors for myself and friends. I run seperate vendors for them becouse it is easier to keep track of who sold what items. If it were changed to the above system I could reduce it to me only having 1 vendor and just admin the other crafters to it so they could add, remove their own items from the same vendor. thus reducing the data base lag of keeping track of my current 6 vendors. A bonus to this would benefit some crafters so that they would not need to have the artisan buisness 1 -4 to get a basic robot vendor. they could put those skill points elsewhere.



2) aristan personal harvesters. Since everything else comes out in crate form. Can also reduce the data base lag by Changing the personal harvesters made in factories to come out in crate form. I just made 200 various personal harvesters and none of them were in crates. I had to put down an extra house just to store the deeds since i do not put them all up for sale at once.


3) Empty vendors: if in the case my vendor idea is not cared for here is another idea to be considered. I travel alot on gorath in search of those top quality resources. You could reduce the data server inormation by jsut making it so if your vendor is empty. you cant put it on the planetary map. On gorath I went planet to planet searching resources. and looked at over 200 player vendors and over 70% of them were empty. i know the data saved would not be much but it would still reduce the amount of information the data server keeps track of if it didnt have to keep track of 160 vendors on a planetary map. *just an idea, becouse when i go shoping i expect to spend at least 1 to 5 mil cred on resources.*




/bmp





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Andymantium
Wed Mar 10, 2004 6:16 am
#10






Bey wrote:

...


I really dont see how a few hundred, or even thousand, items per user can be a problem on a properly indexed database with a sensible table setup.


...







Well, you see...


edit: oh great post by the way..did you try posting this in the Core forums?

Message Edited by Andymantium on 03-10-2004 08:17 AM



K

Arcus
Wed Mar 10, 2004 8:11 am
#11

I hope you posted this in a forum he reads. Great idea. You may want to email it to him as well.



-Wicca






SNAGGLE
Ask me if I care.

Crafter
Bah, I'm old and ugly.

StarchMonkey
Wed Mar 10, 2004 8:49 am
#12

These changes would be heavenly. HEAVENLY I TELL YOU!!! The only reason Joryn hasn't become a weaponsmith also is because I fear the resources. I would be drowning in Iron, Copper and Steel.


Another idea others have had is that if we had a dangRESOURCE PROFESSION that could actually convert or change some resources into others, and dither around with the numbers it could actually help consolodate some of the huge stacks of stuff we have now. I'm selling off some of my resources just to cut down on the sheer number I have. I don't think Holocron anticipated the number of resource we would hoard.



-------------------------------------------------------
Joryn Sunnrae
Master Swordsman
Master Medic
-------------------------------------------------------
ExDarthStorm
Wed Mar 10, 2004 9:07 am
#13


/bump


Incredibly awesome idea! Glad someone had the ability to put that idea into words and post it for all to read!


Personaly i've thought of the same thing for a while now, just never thought anyone else did hehe


Not only would this help AS and WS, but it would help out Chef, and Artisans as well, that make bulk subcomponents...


Heck, this would help out EVERY crafting profession, take Architect for example! They use TONS of walls, and need tons of storage to keep up with them.


I guess i'm doing a major over kill here.. but just think, i have 3 accounts on Kettemoor. One holds all my houses for storage, and the other two are my harvesters and factory holders. I have a Master Armorsmith/Master Chef/Master Artisan and a Master Smuggler, and i'm currently working on Master Bio Engineer.


How much more storage am i going to need DEVS?


You guys ask us to help you out with ideas about how to make this game better.. well, here's one that not only makes it better on our end, but it makes it 100 times better on your end.


DON'T LET THIS IDEA GO TO WAIST DEVS! ACT!!!



Kettemoor

Tolkania - Master CH /Master .. whatever he feels like at the time

Tamirk - Master Chef/Master Armorsmith/Master Artisan

Timp - Master Smuggler/Master Merchant


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