Armorsmith Archive
Thread: Summery of Armorsmith issues with the new CU system
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Okram2k
Sat Apr 09, 2005 2:45 pm
#1
(I haveposted a copythis to the developers to summarize our issues without them having to waid through threads with pages and pages of ranfts, flames, and whatnot. I do not know how well they will take it, but blix has listened to us before, so hopefully everything isn't set in stone yet)
Well my community is definatly ablaze with the new CU system. A lot has been changed with crafting armor, and a lot has been chnaged to the resource usage, experimentation, and well, a lot of stuff that we are kinda not very happy about.
Now to be honest, I, personally, have only been able to have about 30 minutes of stable time in TC-3 since armorsmith came available, and I've only made one armor segment so far, but this is a collection of the opinionis of the community taken from pages and pages of rants, and whatnot.
Here is our top list of issues with the combat upgrade:
1: The new experimentation system.
It is extremly over simplified, and now is too easy to use. There is now no reason to become a 12 point smith anymore, in fact not even a reason to hold out your experimentations for amazing succeses. Since about 90% of the player base hardly notices armor condition, it is doubtful crafters will also, and only put it into them as an after thought. Every crafter will put as many points as possible into resists, and then if they have a point left over, throw it into condition and yawn. This now gives very little difference between one type of armor to the next.
The best proposed idea to change this, is to return to the system of seperating base resistances, and special resistance. This time, special resistance in armors is energy/kinetic. And base would be all other damage types. How about we split resistance experimentation bar into two seperate bars, Experimenting into the base bar lifts all elemental damage types, experimenting into the special protection bar lifts energy and/or kinetic based off of the type of armor it is. I think the best way would be a 75/25 distribution for armors that are supposed to have a bonus to energy or kinetic. And than a 50/50 distrubition for armors that are supposed to have equal resistances. This idea still keeps in the encumberance limits that you have implemented upon us, which I doubt there is very little leeway.
2: Resources, Resources, Resources.
Resources in the CU are all over the place. I can understand the need to change some things here and there, howerver there are two very large problems that need to be tacked. First, the huge increase in the requirement of organic hide. Especially with the lack of any attention given to ranger, organics are going to become more and more expensive as they are harder and harder to aquire. That means that the price of armor is going to sky rocket after the CU. It's already fairly expensive on live servers, but I would expect prices of armor to jump up at least 25% if not 50% when the CU hits live. Also, a lot of our named resources are not having as much use as we'd hoped. Some are starting to feel that the devs just wanted to make a clean wipe on our crafting profession because of the many vast changes. Named resources, some of which are extremly rare, are being found all along the layers, making one wonder if layered armor is even going to be a possibilty.
3: Being helpless to encumberance
The best of the best smiths on live have strives to bring armor that is both light AND effective. Now that dream is completly gone. We arenow a slave to the encumberance of our armors. If you make too good of armor, nobody will want it because it will slow them down too much. And the only way to make low encumberance armor will be to make low stat armor that nobody is going to want. This problem is further exemplified by us trying to fill armor for th ose who are working up their profession. If they just started they're gonna want one type of armor, then half way through they're gonna want another, then another, and then another when they master. Armorsmiths are turning into weaponsmiths with having to keep up a huge variety of stock, except with huge organics requirements in that stock, and costs of armor that is going to zap players of their resources, and get us labeled as greedy crafters even worse than now.
4: Factory Production
It looks now with a huge variety of enhancers at every stage in armor, that it is the goal of developers to inhibit mass production of armor. Yet mass producing is the only way we can keep up with demand. There's half a dozen types of armors available, which can all have identicle stats. So players decide what type of armor they want, that's great for the players. But there's no color customization kits like we thought there would be, this means that either players are all going to have the same colors of armor as the next guy (remember when you would go to the starpot and see everyone in comp, and in the same exact color). Also, with enhancers all across the board in every stage of armor, players are going to want armor that uses all these new thingies. Players have come to expect the best from armor on a regular basis. We where able to mass produce armor, and give it to players en mass. Now we can only mass produce sub par products, while players that really play the game, and expect to be uber leet (see: PVP'ers, hardcore gamers, Hard core PvE'ers, power grinders, and anyone that plays the game more than two hours at a time) will expect armorsmiths to bend over backwards to utilize all this new loot system that has been implemented.
While it is nice that we can have a customization level like weapons, we are in fear that people will expect every piece of armor to be like this. Just like people only use krayt/acklay/gorax weapons when they pvp. This could become a logistical nightmare, especially in chest pieces, which require a huge number of components now, which will mean a huge number of loot components.
5: Armor Certification system
This is a nail in the coffin to some members of our community. Telling players they can't wear this armor because they don't know how to shoot that type of gun. We could have lived with wearing armor and accepting large encumberances if you whern't certed, and have less resistances, but to outright say you can't wear your armor, even armor you crafted yourself, is a slap in the face to us. And I have a feeling crafters of other professions feel the same way. I have a suit of RIS I made for myself, one of my finest achievments that I am hugely proud of, and wear on a regular basis to big events, that now all I can do is let sit on the mantle. Further, I wear padded armor for decorative purpouses, because I think it looks good, that I will never be able to wear again. It's like the devs are telling us nobody is supposed to be an all crafter, and that this game doesn't really want us around.
6: Faction Armor
Well player crafter armor is all going to be pretty similar now that the expermintation line has been simplified, and if we have the same resources, will be completly mirrored. And getting faction armor takes as much FP as before, possibly taking more FP to get armor bio linked than it is to buy it in the current system if your side has enough of a discount on a certain planet. Soon players are going to wonder why we even made it craftable, when it's just turned into a huge faction sink that nobody is going to pay for when another type of armor is available, for cheaper, that doesn't require any FP to get bio linked. I can expectoto pay probably hundreds of thousands to get the fp from a smuggler so I can buy the schematics. Which I am going to have to add to the price, which is going to be put right next to pieces of armor with identicle stats at a lower price, which if a player does pay more for same quality items, will cost the player a large amount of FP to use. And then someone else can't wear their armor once it's bio linked if they say decided to switch profesions and give their armor that they are no longer certaifed for to someone else.
NalaniKonomohu
Sat Apr 09, 2005 2:49 pm
#2
7.) Whatwas the honest intent to "Downgrade" the armor process for Armorsmiths? No slick words, no end depth dev talk, a straightforward, clean answer for all of us Armorsmiths.
*Good Summary Okram*
Message Edited by NalaniKonomohu on 04-09-2005 03:02 PM
1M1Alex
Sat Apr 09, 2005 3:21 pm
#3
Good list.
My big concern is #2.
Why change layer requirements?
Could at least assault segments use the old comp segment resources?
Some consideration for our time and money invested would be nice at this point.
Just below #2 on my personal worry-list is #1, experimenatation has to be complicated and have some reward system to it for this to be any fun for me. Zero-sum layers with 1 line to experiment is a game breaker right there.
Good list Okram, you've been doing a great job from what I've seen, keep it up!
Blixtev and the rest of the dev team, I can't say what I think of the job you've done without being banned, I'll leave it at that.
My big concern is #2.
Why change layer requirements?
Could at least assault segments use the old comp segment resources?
Some consideration for our time and money invested would be nice at this point.
Just below #2 on my personal worry-list is #1, experimenatation has to be complicated and have some reward system to it for this to be any fun for me. Zero-sum layers with 1 line to experiment is a game breaker right there.
Good list Okram, you've been doing a great job from what I've seen, keep it up!
Blixtev and the rest of the dev team, I can't say what I think of the job you've done without being banned, I'll leave it at that.
Quizz
Sat Apr 09, 2005 3:25 pm
#4
1) lets not forget that, because we have to start all over in the resource department, there is going to be weaponsmiths with 2 years of collecting resources against our newbi armor. big inbalance there.
2) when someone goes to a weaponsmith to get a customized weapon, they usually only get one built for there profession. we will have to make 7 pieces of armor for every peep.
3) we're losing more money then any other profession. were're losing our resources, experimentation tapes. 100's of millions of credits. not even to say all the time and effort setting up harveys and resource vendor shopping all for nothing.
Keeper32
Sat Apr 09, 2005 3:27 pm
#5
/Makedev Okram2K
This list pretty much sums up all of my various worries. Well done.
TurboSith
Sat Apr 09, 2005 3:33 pm
#6
7 identical cores for a chest plate
im sorry but that is insane... especially if loot parts dont drop in more then 11.... something taht decays 100x faster then a weapon but uses just as much if not more as the complicated weapons doesnt make sense
seriously.. give us the old system.. this new EQ2 system isnt cutting it... there is no thought in armor crafting anymore.. the only part of the game i even enjoy anymore is now reduced to a remedial level...
and dont even get em started on teh interface and keymap... I DONT WANT TO PLAY WOW OR EQ2 ...
Fobok
Sat Apr 09, 2005 4:06 pm
#7
TurboSith wrote:
seriously.. give us the old system.. this new EQ2 system isnt cutting it... there is no thought in armor crafting anymore.. the only part of the game i even enjoy anymore is now reduced to a remedial level...
Ok, I am getting really tired of this. While I agree with all the issues brought up in the original post, this line of turning it into EQ2 is tiring. The crafting system is not becoming EQ2's system! The crafting system is *nothing* like EQ2's system! They're making armoursmithing too simple, agreed, but they're changing itto be likedroid engineering... which is still from SWG! Complaints like this don't do anything to get things fixed because it makes us look like a mob following some guy in the front shouting 'You're turning the country communist!' over a slight raise in taxes. Shouting that they're turning the game into EQ2 makes as little sense as the systems are still very different!
As for the update in general, just because there's flaws in the system doesn't mean you scrap the whole thing... it means you fix the flaws. The combat update has far more benefits than downsides, it just needs some minor changes to fix the problems. Shouting out that the whole system should be scrapped (which you should *know* they won't do) is more likely to just drown out the constructive feedback, resulting in less getting fixed.
Ox-
Sat Apr 09, 2005 4:08 pm
#8
The new experimentation system not only elimates the benefit of 12-points, but eliminates the need for the FS assembly and FS experiment lines. People who did the tedious grinding for these are now SOL. Fortunately for me I didn't get very far into them because I was trying to get them by "just playing the game" (handmaking most of my armor).
shrewdfarseer
Sat Apr 09, 2005 4:17 pm
#9
3: Being helpless to encumberance
The best of the best smiths on live have strives to bring armor that is both light AND effective. Now that dream is completly gone. We arenow a slave to the encumberance of our armors. If you make too good of armor, nobody will want it because it will slow them down too much. And the only way to make low encumberance armor will be to make low stat armor that nobody is going to want. This problem is further exemplified by us trying to fill armor for th ose who are working up their profession. If they just started they're gonna want one type of armor, then half way through they're gonna want another, then another, and then another when they master. Armorsmiths are turning into weaponsmiths with having to keep up a huge variety of stock, except with huge organics requirements in that stock, and costs of armor that is going to zap players of their resources, and get us labeled as greedy crafters even worse than now.
could this possibly be solved by allowing the RIS layer to be used in all armor????? just a thought
TurboSith
Sat Apr 09, 2005 4:22 pm
#11
Fobok wrote:
TurboSith wrote:
seriously.. give us the old system.. this new EQ2 system isnt cutting it... there is no thought in armor crafting anymore.. the only part of the game i even enjoy anymore is now reduced to a remedial level...
Ok, I am getting really tired of this. While I agree with all the issues brought up in the original post, this line of turning it into EQ2 is tiring. The crafting system is not becoming EQ2's system! The crafting system is *nothing* like EQ2's system! They're making armoursmithing too simple, agreed, but they're changing itto be likedroid engineering... which is still from SWG! Complaints like this don't do anything to get things fixed because it makes us look like a mob following some guy in the front shouting 'You're turning the country communist!' over a slight raise in taxes. Shouting that they're turning the game into EQ2 makes as little sense as the systems are still very different!
As for the update in general, just because there's flaws in the system doesn't mean you scrap the whole thing... it means you fix the flaws. The combat update has far more benefits than downsides, it just needs some minor changes to fix the problems. Shouting out that the whole system should be scrapped (which you should *know* they won't do) is more likely to just drown out the constructive feedback, resulting in less getting fixed.
i've been positive and receptive for a while now... i broke down... i lost plenty of friends to WoW and EQ2 and did not play because the system was too generic.... the fantasy genre has been nearly unchanged .... and to see a great game with so many intricate details be remedialized is disappointing...
to me.. broken corpse runs were more fun then the new craft system...
Ileanna777
Sat Apr 09, 2005 4:26 pm
#12
((quote)) Fobok
Ok, I am getting really tired of this. While I agree with all the issues brought up in the original post, this line of turning it into EQ2 is tiring. The crafting system is not becoming EQ2's system! The crafting system is *nothing* like EQ2's system! They're making armoursmithing too simple, agreed, but they're changing itto be likedroid engineering... which is still from SWG! Complaints like this don't do anything to get things fixed because it makes us look like a mob following some guy in the front shouting 'You're turning the country communist!' over a slight raise in taxes. Shouting that they're turning the game into EQ2 makes as little sense as the systems are still very different!
As for the update in general, just because there's flaws in the system doesn't mean you scrap the whole thing... it means you fix the flaws. The combat update has far more benefits than downsides, it just needs some minor changes to fix the problems. Shouting out that the whole system should be scrapped (which you should *know* they won't do) is more likely to just drown out the constructive feedback, resulting in less getting fixed. ((endquote))
QFE!!!!
Message Edited by Ileanna777 on 04-09-2005 04:27 PM
Message Edited by Ileanna777 on 04-09-2005 04:28 PM
Arem
Sat Apr 09, 2005 4:28 pm
#13
Only the Mabari Chestplate uses 7 Cores. Which might have reasons but might also be unintended. All otherbody armorsrequire3 cores.Body pieces including biceps like the Ubese jacket require 5 cores which is the sum of chest plus l+r biceps. Altogether both Ubese and Composite appearence require 11 cores for the full set.
TurboSith wrote:
7 identical cores for a chest plate
im sorry but that is insane... especially if loot parts dont drop in more then 11.... something taht decays 100x faster then a weapon but uses just as much if not more as the complicated weapons doesnt make sense
seriously.. give us the old system.. this new EQ2 system isnt cutting it... there is no thought in armor crafting anymore.. the only part of the game i even enjoy anymore is now reduced to a remedial level...
and dont even get em started on teh interface and keymap... I DONT WANT TO PLAY WOW OR EQ2 ...
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