Armorsmith Archive
Thread: FS Crafting Solutions
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Alanis
Tue Sep 14, 2004 7:17 am
#1
People have to realize there is a difference between Grinding and Crafting.
Grinding was something you did to get your Holocron and once Master was reached you dropped the profession and started the next. You simply bought the cheapest resources you could find click in practice mode and click away.
Crafting is something you do after you reach Master and decide to stay with the Profession. You spend a lot of time searching and harvesting the best resources to make the best Items you can find. You also spend time Marketing and Selling the items. Cost analysis Profit Margins are all things you have to figure in. You then spend a lot of time experimenting and trying to produce the best item possible. At this point you would normally do Factories runs which wouldn’t count for any FS Exp. I’m not against hand Crafting my Armor but the time I spend Experimenting takes away a lot of the Crafting Exp I would get if I was a grinder. I could easily grind through10x more items at a time if I was simply grinding. I would have to produce 6000 Sets of Composite to just get the 4 FS Branches. And at the price I sell my Armor for that’s 2.5 BILLION Credits worth.
I’m not asking for FS Crafting to be made easier or Fighters would use this as a means to get their lines for Jedi. What I am asking for is more Exp for the time I spend actually Crafting Quality items.
Fighters aren’t asked to go Dance for Exp and Crafters shouldn’t have to Grind for Exp. Crafting and Grinding are 2 DIFFERENT things. Just like Fighting and Dancing are 2 DIFFERENT Things.
I would like people to come up with ideas here to separate Grinding from Crafting. My best idea is this.
Crafting at Master should be based on Quality of items not Quantity. The extra time spent Experimenting should be taken into account along with the Quality of resources. Simply put a 12 Point Crafter with top level resources should be getting 10x more Crafting Exp then someone that Grinds up a tree far enough to pick an item and clicks in Practice mode with the Cheapest resources they can find and starts Clicking away.
Asir_SWG
Tue Sep 14, 2004 8:44 am
#2
nice idea there, to reward a crafter for creating high quality goods, could be implemented from the % values after experimentation, that way you would have to have both high quality resources and experiment them to get the additional XP...
Alanis wrote:
Crafting at Master should be based on Quality of items not Quantity. The extra time spent Experimenting should be taken into account along with the Quality of resources. Simply put a 12 Point Crafter with top level resources should be getting 10x more Crafting Exp then someone that Grinds up a tree far enough to pick an item and clicks in Practice mode with the Cheapest resources they can find and starts Clicking away.
UmmonPrime
Tue Sep 14, 2004 8:56 am
#3
Not only a good idea, it makes sense. Reward me for being a master. Reward me for putting in all that time to craft better armor. You put in more effort, it should show.
joined42904
Tue Sep 14, 2004 9:10 am
#4
I totally agree with this.
I'm so depressed about how the FS crafting trees presently work, and I really hope the devs change it. Why should crafters have to grind for exp and everyone else just be able to do things normally.
I think crafters should get FS experinece when their items are USED in the game. This would encourage crafters to make items that folks need, not just "grind exp." And it would encourage folks to make low-profit items used by newbies to the server who come with JTL.
For a master to hand-craft items just doesn't make sense. I've looked at it, and I would have to re-master armorsmith in terms of exp gain many times over in order to gain the FS crafting trees. Not worth it imo.
Maybe merchant exp should be convertable to crafting exp. There just needs to be some way around the ridiculous grind.
Whrlwnd13
Tue Sep 14, 2004 9:27 am
#5
Alanis wrote:
I would like people to come up with ideas here to separate Grinding from Crafting. My best idea is this.
Crafting at Master should be based on Quality of items not Quantity. The extra time spent Experimenting should be taken into account along with the Quality of resources. Simply put a 12 Point Crafter with top level resources should be getting 10x more Crafting Exp then someone that Grinds up a tree far enough to pick an item and clicks in Practice mode with the Cheapest resources they can find and starts Clicking away.
Interesting concept... Actually getting xp for things you would normally do as a quality crafter.
Xp for experimentation: Increases exponentially forexperimentation percentage of an item,bonus xp for amazing sucesses. More xp if a prototype is made opposed to a schematic. Bonus for the number of subcomponents used. This would be a sliding scale thats based on resource caps. So if you experimented to the max allowable for a gated resource it would equal the same for a resource type that isn't gated.
Surveying Xp: Xp given for locating a high percentage concentration of a resource. bonus Xp for droping the first harvester on a given concentration above a certain percentage.Bonus if thestatsare better than a resourceof the same type that you have previously surveyed.Survey Xpwould be aone time Xp gain per concentration so that you couldn't just survey the same concentration numerous times and gain Xp each time.
Merchant Xp: If you maintain a well stocked vendor and sell quality items you gain xp. this would be a daily xp value per vendor which corresponds to number of items on vendor. bonus for number of items sold which increases with the amount the item is sold for.
Harvesting Xp: this would be a xp gain for the amount of maintenance and power that is put into harvesters and structures.
Customer service Xp: this would be xp gained when you tirelessly explain and make suggestions to potential clients or help out other players. Not sure how this would be calculated but crafters do a lot of this and should get credit.
UsageXp.this would be gained when an itemthat you crafted wasused by another player. It would be a significant amountand would increase with the quality of an item.
Evasion Xp: This would be xp gained for sucessfully avoiding death from creatures and NPCs when traveling in the wild. it would increase inversely to the amount of combat skills a crafter posesses. it would translate into combat xp and could be an additional bonus to combat xp for crafters (and players that haven't mastered a combat profession).
Travel Xp this would be xp gained each time a player traveled via shuttle and for kilometers traveled in vehicles. It could be tied into cost for shuttle tickets and manintence paidfor vehicles.
There'ssomeideas off the top of my head not sure what the xp values should be so i left them out. I'm not sure how difficult to implement these ideas it would be, but it would make it so that people actually played the game instead of just grinding.
Akaara
Tue Sep 14, 2004 9:34 am
#6
The only problem is that tailors do not use experimentation except on ONE item!
Asir_SWG
Tue Sep 14, 2004 9:53 am
#7
Akaara wrote:
The only problem is that tailors do not use experimentation except on ONE item!
I have thought about that for the last 15 mins - and have to admit I haven't got an answer...
But you do have the advantage that by crafting by hand your goods are no worse, du to experimentation if I were to craft by hand the quality of my goods would suffer.
Kryxal
Tue Sep 14, 2004 9:55 am
#8
Well, the current situation is even worse for BEs than everybody else for gaining FS Crafting XP. After all, ALL of our products require creature resources! If you think grinding something like armour is expensive, consider how it would be when there are resources you can't just drop a harvester for ... the only way around this might be to grind using our 0004 Medic skills, which doesn't sound all that appealing. I'd be more effective by far picking up Engineering 3 in Artisan and grinding that, I think (or at least better able to afford it).
TheEpigoni
Tue Sep 14, 2004 10:59 am
#9
So how is grinding with HQ Resources and Experimentation different from grinding with cheap resources and no experimentation? It's just an extra step that you have to do, instead of hunting for a good price on crap, you'll hunt for a good price on HQ Stuff. Instead of clicking practice, you have to click and extra 20 times to experiment on an item. It won't make sense unless the bonus is huge because even if it's 10x, cheaper resources and no experimentation will still be much faster. And if you make the bonus too much, people will start taking advantage of the system (one way or another). It's just more effort for the devs to get bitching from people who complain that Crafting gives too much xp and Grinding gives too little. This way they only get complaints from crafters who say Crafting gives no xp.
And as for 12pt chefs. Think of the wookies, oh please will someone think of the wookies! And the people without millions to spend on SEAs.
joined42904
Tue Sep 14, 2004 11:08 am
#10
Maybe the answer is to let the grinders get there first and then do a lookback and see (by some measure) who has been a crafter all this time selling decent-quality goods that have been used by other players and give those folks the FS crafting trees at about the same rate the regular combat folks get up the combat trees.
I still firmly believe that use experience alone would be sufficient for giving appropriate FS experience to crafters if done correctly. This way folks wouldn't just get experience from selling merchandise for credits to their guildmates who give the merchandise back, get the credits back, rinse, and repeat the process.
It needs to be something that isn't too easy, that takes a bit longer than the combat professions, especially the grinders, but that doesn't involve grinding. I think use experience fits the bill.
Draygox
Tue Sep 14, 2004 1:32 pm
#11
My solution, and i probably will get flamed for this, is to lower the fs xp required for crafting fs boxes. Here is my reasoning:
The current layout for fs xp across all the tree is almost mirrored of that for an elite combat prof. We dont use combat or weapons xp to gain our fs crafting xp. We used, you guessed it, crafting xp. So they should somewhat mirror the xp requirements of an elite crafting prof. i.e.
roughly
first row ~ 30k
second row ~ 40k
third row ~ 50k
second row ~ 60k
on second thought that might be too low so maybe double or triple it. Just not 175k for the first row please.
Now i know people will say...thats too low people will just sit and grind out the fs crafting boxes because its too easy. My response to that is the combat profs are already doing it for their fs boxes. We are striving for equality and the current system is not.
The current layout for fs xp across all the tree is almost mirrored of that for an elite combat prof. We dont use combat or weapons xp to gain our fs crafting xp. We used, you guessed it, crafting xp. So they should somewhat mirror the xp requirements of an elite crafting prof. i.e.
roughly
first row ~ 30k
second row ~ 40k
third row ~ 50k
second row ~ 60k
on second thought that might be too low so maybe double or triple it. Just not 175k for the first row please.
Now i know people will say...thats too low people will just sit and grind out the fs crafting boxes because its too easy. My response to that is the combat profs are already doing it for their fs boxes. We are striving for equality and the current system is not.
Sevarhin
Tue Sep 14, 2004 1:36 pm
#12
darthbock wrote:I also think usage experience is the way to go here. It should be something like 40% of the total item experience...
Yes.
Ail
Tue Sep 14, 2004 1:46 pm
#13
Draygox wrote:
My solution, and i probably will get flamed for this, is to lower the fs xp required for crafting fs boxes. Here is my reasoning:
The current layout for fs xp across all the tree is almost mirrored of that for an elite combat prof. We dont use combat or weapons xp to gain our fs crafting xp. We used, you guessed it, crafting xp. So they should somewhat mirror the xp requirements of an elite crafting prof. i.e.
roughly
first row ~ 30k
second row ~ 40k
third row ~ 50k
second row ~ 60k
on second thought that might be too low so maybe double or triple it. Just not 175k for the first row please.
Now i know people will say...thats too low people will just sit and grind out the fs crafting boxes because its too easy. My response to that is the combat profs are already doing it for their fs boxes. We are striving for equality and the current system is not.
And then everyone will have force sensitive skills.
I highly doubt this is the goal the devs want to achieve....
PS : why do we strive for equality with combat professions ?
It's not like they are gaining any fs crafting exp doing missions...
Message Edited by Ail on 09-14-2004 01:52 PM
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