Armorsmith Archive
Thread: Ways of nerfing composite
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owako
Sun Sep 05, 2004 2:33 pm
#1
I agree, this game is pushing it already with the stupid irritation factory. I really don't need more crap to put up with. I don't want more organics. It will just be more headaches for me and much more expensive armor for all the combat types.
And the comp specials going up with the base, thats a hack the DEVS did to cover for layers not working right. Thats not our fault.
And the comp specials going up with the base, thats a hack the DEVS did to cover for layers not working right. Thats not our fault.
Areriye
Sun Sep 05, 2004 2:48 pm
#2
So because something doesn't work properly, it is alright for it to continue not functioning properly?
So it was okay to leave Force Run 3 with full damage because it was the way the devs designed it? Of couse not; it is an escape tool only and it got toned down to function the way it was meant to.
No, I have to disagree there. Either no armor should have that effect or all armor should have that effect.
The organic thing was just an idea, but think of it this way... why should padded be ahrder to make than composite?
AtPlay
Sun Sep 05, 2004 4:59 pm
#3
Even if more organics were added to Composite, it would still be extremely effective, and it wont solve any problem. Actually the only thing that would happen is the cost of it would go up. The base/special slide would solve some problems, but it would still make high base armor, its just the electricity that would be lower.
About the only way to do it correctly would be to reduce the stats and put a lower cap in place. Instead of capping at 80% pre slice, maybe 50-60%. At the same time you do this, up the base on Padded. Allow Padded to hit 60-70%, with acid, stun, heat, lightsaber vulns...which would balance out the high resistances. Leave Ubese where it is, add an Advanced Tantel layer (I dont think it needs the rest of the pieces added, chest/helm/boots with high energy would be just fine). The other sets look about right.
About the only way to do it correctly would be to reduce the stats and put a lower cap in place. Instead of capping at 80% pre slice, maybe 50-60%. At the same time you do this, up the base on Padded. Allow Padded to hit 60-70%, with acid, stun, heat, lightsaber vulns...which would balance out the high resistances. Leave Ubese where it is, add an Advanced Tantel layer (I dont think it needs the rest of the pieces added, chest/helm/boots with high energy would be just fine). The other sets look about right.
Domandred
Sun Sep 05, 2004 5:03 pm
#4
I'm not an armorsmith so I might be wrong, please don't flame me.
Composite doesn't need to be nerfed. What needs to happen is a new armor set for specialized protection that does nothing else to the others. Like I have a set of Ubese armor that is 72% kinetic, and a set of composite that is 80% Kinetic. Well for me the Composite has other stats that are worthless to me for the encumbrance it causes. I would much rather have a suit that gives 85% kinetic and no protection to other things at all. My other character though I would love to have 85% energy, but I have no use for Kinetic cause any time he is taking damage is from blaster fire.
Problem isn't that Compo is overpowered. The problem is that there is nothing comparable in other types so even people like me that just want the good Kinetic need to get the whole freaking thing.
What needs to be nerfed is buffs...that's my opinion and I'm sticking to it.
justapilgrim
Sun Sep 05, 2004 7:33 pm
#5
changing the ingrediants will not solve anything
there was a discussing about what composite metal was a while back. it is synthetic, very strong can withstand insane heat cold etc. So for composite armor to be mix of organics is like taking the bone requirement out of bone armor.
Also no matter what the resource requirements are, people will seek out the best and nothing will change. All it will do is piss off some people that have been stockpiling resources (which is prett much all of us)
justapilgrim
Sun Sep 05, 2004 7:37 pm
#6
Areriye wrote:
Composite is gonna get nerfed anyways. I was just thinking of a few random ideas. Please discuss constructively. This is just meant to be a sounding board, not gospel.
1.) Change composite ingredients to a more organic mixture. Padded sucks to make, as does Wookiee armor. Why? Organics are harder and more expensive to acquire in large quantities than inorganics. This odd belnd of organics and inorganics is what defines armorsmith, and imo, makes it the most challenging crafting profession to start and maintain. If composite had a less inorganic blend, it would dumb down the number of suits as well as the quality. (Not to a large degree, mind you, but enough slow it down.)
2.) Remove the base/special stat "slide". Composite is the only armor where you can put absolutely NO points into the special resistance on the layer, segment or final and still hit 80% because the base pushes it up everytime you experiment on it. This factor alone provides greater protection per experimentation point than any other armor out there. If this were removed, comp would not have the same stats it does now (or would make it super retarded heavy).
Discuss.
for number 2- wook hunting is like this too, so it isnt just comp
even if this were change, we would all just make high base electric or stun layered stuff. I started making 16% stun 69% base which can slice to 90% base pretty easy, changing the way special experiments doesnt "nerf" these types of armor at all
Srednii
Sun Sep 05, 2004 10:12 pm
#7
Areriye wrote:
The organic thing was just an idea, but think of it this way... why should padded be ahrder to make than composite?
It shouldn't. But the answer isn't the nerf the crap out of composite by adding a crap load of organic requirements, the answer is to remove padded armor's organic requirements.
justapilgrim
Sun Sep 05, 2004 10:41 pm
#8
Srednii wrote:
Areriye wrote:
The organic thing was just an idea, but think of it this way... why should padded be ahrder to make than composite?
It shouldn't. But the answer isn't the nerf the crap out of composite by adding a crap load of organic requirements, the answer is to remove padded armor's organic requirements.
if padded and comp were switched, people would complain that composite was too hard to make.
If padded was THE armor, we would all have huge stacks of the best Lok Leathery, Cor Fiberplast, etc, and very little polysteel copper or kiirum steel
the bracers/biceps/arms/boots on padded all only take one segment, that is pretty nice, cuts down on price of segs
Message Edited by justapilgrim on 09-06-2004 01:42 AM
Areriye
Mon Sep 06, 2004 12:04 am
#9
Composite is gonna get nerfed anyways. I was just thinking of a few random ideas. Please discuss constructively. This is just meant to be a sounding board, not gospel.
1.) Change composite ingredients to a more organic mixture. Padded sucks to make, as does Wookiee armor. Why? Organics are harder and more expensive to acquire in large quantities than inorganics. This odd belnd of organics and inorganics is what defines armorsmith, and imo, makes it the most challenging crafting profession to start and maintain. If composite had a less inorganic blend, it would dumb down the number of suits as well as the quality. (Not to a large degree, mind you, but enough slow it down.)
2.) Remove the base/special stat "slide". Composite is the only armor where you can put absolutely NO points into the special resistance on the layer, segment or final and still hit 80% because the base pushes it up everytime you experiment on it. This factor alone provides greater protection per experimentation point than any other armor out there. If this were removed, comp would not have the same stats it does now (or would make it super retarded heavy).
Discuss.
Srednii
Mon Sep 06, 2004 12:59 am
#10
Areriye wrote:
1.) Change composite ingredients to a more organic mixture. Padded sucks to make, as does Wookiee armor. Why? Organics are harder and more expensive to acquire in large quantities than inorganics. This odd belnd of organics and inorganics is what defines armorsmith, and imo, makes it the most challenging crafting profession to start and maintain. If composite had a less inorganic blend, it would dumb down the number of suits as well as the quality. (Not to a large degree, mind you, but enough slow it down.)
oh gods, you arn't nerfing composite with that change, you're nerfing armorsmiths. Instead of making composite less effective, you're just making it a pain in the ass to make, making it more frustrating to make, making it impossible to make large scale armor runs.
I'm sorry but any idea that involves using added frustration for the player to limit the game is not a good idea.
Areriye
Tue Sep 07, 2004 1:10 pm
#11
All good points, but, organic armors are more limited in production runs. While it is easy enough to mine a heap of inorganic materials and make huge batches of armor, you can't tell me you could make half as much if the components were changed to organic.
I'm not really even suggesting this be done, necessarily, but they could limit production quantity that way, at least. Not a solution to the problem alone, but just a passing thought, nothing more. 
ArianSix
Tue Sep 07, 2004 1:56 pm
#12
Any changes to the crafting process (i.e. ingredients, frustration, etc) will do nothing to actually nerf the armor. If you require organics and weird experimentation, the only thing that changes is the price and the number of people wearing uber armor - so now instead of everyone running around in uber armor, you'll get a small group of people running around in full protection owning everyone.
The reason compo is getting the nerf is because 80%-90% armor really unbalances PvP and PvE (even a defense stacker needs awesome compo when solo'ing a NS Elder).
Basically, what's most likely to happen is that the resists of armor is going to drop all across the board. Maybe instead of 80/90 being uber compo, the new "uberness" will be 30/40 compo.
This sounds bad, up front, but don't forget that there will be an entire combat balance behind this. Weapons will be doing less damage, buffs will go down in powers, etc... maybe after everything is all said and done, 30%-40% will be enough to still make a huge difference.
It's hard to say what's going to happen because no one really has a clue about the big picture.
If I had to guess, though, the nerf is going to be a simple reduction in resistances all across the board.
-- A6
Asir_SWG
Tue Sep 07, 2004 3:07 pm
#13
Personally I think three simple small changes would help matters out, and bring balance to this situation.
- Cap slicing to 80% on any armor, base any higher I agree is over powered.
- Tone down buffs, at the moment people care little for HAM costs, I want them to care, I want to see masters that have really got the hang of balancing high resists with low HAM, at the moment it is just a resource race to get the best OQ/SR.
- Re-think the special / base stacking on Comp, this would make people think twice about choosing this type of armor as it would have lower electricty resists.
Message Edited by Asir_SWG on 09-07-2004 03:08 PM
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