CUEmu - Thread Posts

Bandola

Fri Feb 06, 2004 2:20 am

Hi all, a little request for assistance. I am trying to gather as much info as possible on different experiences with different aspects of Harvester construction. One thing I see popping up from time to time are references to the effect the malleability of a resource may have on experimentation. I would like to include this in a guide for architects, so does anybody have :

a) first hand experience of mall effects,

b) results of experiments on different mall resources on the experimentable components, or final build,

c) any theories to expound

d) any anecdotes that could give a clue to the effects

hope some of you can help with this investigation.

__________________________________________________________
Bandola Da'Gear
-RETIRED-
((The Blue Ghost))

dulee

Fri Feb 06, 2004 5:11 am

#2

As far as I can tell from the harvester schematics, malleability only affects the hopper size and not the BER. At best, I will have one or two experimentation points left when I've maxxed out the extraction rate and if I apply them to the hopper size it will only increase it by a couple of thousand.

Of course you have to consider whether experimenting on the hopper size is worth the risk of a potential crit fail which can result in a fall in the BER. It's happened to me so I don't usually bother to experiment on the hopper.

Greatsails

Fri Feb 06, 2004 11:59 am

#3

I have often wondered about this. If I crit while experimenting Hopper Size, I lose out on Efficiency, and sometimes lose a BER point. This tells us that hopper size and efficiency *are* tired together in some way. This is true on just about every schematic from every profession I've tried. Crit on one line hurts the others.

I wonder if the inverse is true, that really good Malleability might actually help one get better experimentation results. Here would be my theory as to the mechanics behind the scenes:

Experimentation success is a function of resource quality and experimentation skill modifiers.

What if the resource quality part of the function hasn't properly been separated in the coding, and the system determines that part of the function by adding the pertinent qualities of all resources involved. That's not as clear as I'd like, think I'll try to represent that mathematically:

Where Chance of Success on Experimentation = E

Resource Quality = Q

Experimentation Skill Modifiers = M

E= f(Q)+ f(M)

We assume that Q is determined by the resources involvedin that partiuclar line, such that Q for the Efficiency line isHR + SR + 2UT. But what if they goofed on the code? What if they successfully mannaged to get the final combine and experimentation results to just be a function of the pertinent resource stats, but failed to do it for Chance of Experimental Success. I can see them doing that for simplicity's sake; reduces the number of lines of code, since you don't have to code different experimental success determiners for each and every attribute of every schematic, you just have one master determiner per schematic, one which takes into account *all* the pertinent resource stats for the whole schematic.

Or in otherwords, what if Q is actually f(HR) + f(SR) + f(UT) + f(MA)

That's not very articulate, and I apologize. If anyone can follow that, what do you think?

-----
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Pawlin

Fri Feb 06, 2004 12:13 pm

#4

Interesting theory.

I guess the way to test it would be to try and find 2 metals with roughly equivalent values for HR + SR + UT + UT but differing values for MA. Then do a couple builds using those materials to compare and contrast the results.

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Harvesters and Crafting stations - Triad Coronet Mall just outside Coronet (-177 -5490)
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firennice

Fri Feb 06, 2004 6:23 pm

#5

Supposidly the formulas do not take into account other stats... and i tend to agree.

The following making 40 walls each as a test

Group #1

Chanlon Ore MA 79

Nuetronium Steel MA 209

Group #2

Robindon Silicastic ore MA 877

Polysteelcopper MA 982

Critical fail assembly

Group #1 2 of 40

Group #2 3 of 40

I experimented 1 experimentation point 5 times on each wall (because i wanted equal # of expetimentation each group)

Group #1 15 of 200

Group #2 17 of 200

ta daaa

no difference in assembly or experimentation

the assembly and experimentation is supposed to be based on skill, crafting station, crafting tool, and city skills (if purchased by the city).

you might have a string of bad luck...welcome to the gambling game...thats what it is..

you might fail 3 times in a row...then not for a while...

Look at other things do you have the highest skill

are you using a personal crafting station?

is it high quality?

a high quality tool?

does your city have research center? manufacturing center?

all of these will be a factory

but i am positive that the designers are telling the truth... you use SR-HR-UT and nothing else for goods (for us anyway) and it does not effect experimentation or assembly. Those are effected by other factors.

Boni Glackin - Tempest, Master Architect, Master Creature Handler, , Pistoleer, Merchant, In the Taleth Mall in Taleth (outside Restuss on Rori)....The garden spot of the universe

dulee

Sat Feb 07, 2004 5:52 am

#6

Some interesting theories indeed!

I'm still not convinced that MA is linked to the efficiency though. My own theory is that if you get a crit fail while experimenting on the hopper, the reduction in the BER is a penalty for the crit fail.

I think to test if MA and BER are linked, you would need to use two materials with similar UT, HR and SR values but different MA values. You would then see what the maximum efficiency percentage you could achieve with each set of materials. If MA does influence the BER, then you should get a consistently higher maximum efficiency percentage with the higher MA material.

In practice, I think it would be quite difficult to prove that MA affects the efficiency percentage. Most recently I've been using duralloy steel with MA in the 300 range and getting efficiency values in the mid 90s. If there was a duralloy steel with MA in the 900 range, would I get consistently higher efficiency values?

dulee

Sat Feb 07, 2004 6:05 am

#7

The edit option isn't available

I wanted to add at the bottom of my last post that I think that the last few percentage points required to take the efficiency to 100% would be available if the materials I used had UT SR and HR of 1000. Since the materials I was using only had values of 9xx, I could only achieve 9x% efficiency. I don't think that the MA influences that value.

Bandola

Wed Feb 11, 2004 3:36 am

#8

still looking for more on this if anybody has it...

__________________________________________________________
Bandola Da'Gear
-RETIRED-
((The Blue Ghost))

Nakorthebluerider

Wed Feb 11, 2004 6:25 am

#9

I will try this some time this week, I am a +1 structure tape away from having 12 experimentation points and will give it a go.

Bandola

Wed Feb 18, 2004 4:27 am

#10

Nakur, did you ever get around to trying this out ?

__________________________________________________________
Bandola Da'Gear
-RETIRED-
((The Blue Ghost))

Architect Archive

Thread: BER and MALL anybody tested ?