Architect Archive

I learned something the other day reading these boards after the patch. I had no idea that people could get 25k missions, since I am a non combative architect/merchant. I have/had no problem with this. But... with this knowledge, I have gone back and thought about some of the "you are way overpriced LOL" insults, sarcastic comments and discussions I have had/received.

Now, a light comes on... what bugged me to a smaller degree before, bugs me to a larger extent now.

Before, it could have been argued that.. ok, they dont like my price, and they where a little rude about it, but... it is allot of money and therefore allot of that players time.

Now, with the reality that people where pulling in 25k a mssion, and doing 4 an hour for a total of 100k, things come into perspective. What could have been considered a somewhat reasonablethough slightlyrude player, now has become very disconcerting.

With the knowledge now, that a player can make 25k on one mission and 10-15 minutes, then come into an architects shop and insult that architect because a small house is 10k, or a medium is 100k. Greed, and I do not mean the architects, but the buyers, becomes painfully obvious.

That player thinks that being able to buy 2 small houses, half way to three, for 15 minutes work is unreasonable? Instead they should be able to do 15 minutes work and buy FOUR!! Why does that player so selfishly and rudely push the idea that his/her information is worth so much more than mine?

I guess what I am trying to say, is if the market value of those houses is what the player that comes into my shop and wants to pay, that is fine. I have no problem with that.But, when I dont trade my 240 minutes for your 15, have the respect to shut your mouth and move along.

The greed and selfishness of some people never ceases to amaze me. Sometimes I think I am playing a game with a bunch of spoiled arrogant little brats barely out of diapers.

Yep, I knew people who were at one point pulling in over a million a night easily (granted it was a exploit), but even without the exploit a high level master combat character could pull in enough to buy a heavy harvester in 2-3 hours of play (even less if they bought off of a low baller). Now compare that to how long it takes me get enough resources to make one (considering crits and failures) then make one. Basically 1 hour of their play time = at least 5 hours of my play time. It just isn't worth it to low ball, if I can't sell for a decent price then I just won't sell.

I couldn't agree with you more to a certain extent.

As a combat class you have an earning potential of the same if not greater than any given artisan. However, not every player can run these 25k solo and they are primarily on endor a trip that can cost upwards of 10k.

Other "typical" missions on adventure planets avg. 5-10K still not a pad payout. (I am not sure how this publish and the new mission changes effected payouts, haven't tested it yet was too busy playing with experimentatio )

The problem is you can't make a sweeping generalisation that any combat class grinds these missions and is filthy rich. Just about any combat proffession can do them solo utilising certain "cough" tactics "cough" (I use that loosley because they are really AI exploits. But some proffessions can rifle through these missions legitimatly as well at alarming rate i.e. creature handlers, commandos, BH's, TKA, any Imp with an AT-STetc..

So in general you never do know how much that person that is complaining about price actually has. But on the other hand that doesn't mean you have to accomodate them because they have a more casual game style when you incour all the same amount of work, unless you feel it is worth it.

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Reeka wrote:

I couldn't agree with you more to a certain extent.

As a combat class you have an earning potential of the same if not greater than any given artisan. However, not every player can run these 25k solo and they are primarily on endor a trip that can cost upwards of 10k.

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Though you make a good point that not every profession can solo them, they can group up easyily enough to still get the same amount of credits. Heck I've even took up some pistol skill (lvl 4) and got me a good pet so I could join these groups and make some money for a change. What tactic did we use... Send it the pets... shoot the rest.

There are a few things you need to remember about this whole thing. I'm a Master Arch and a Master WS, so let me share from both angles.

First and foremost, the trip to Endor runs most players around 6K credits round trip (or close to it). So, let's say it was a Master CH (who could solo these missions w/out breaking a sweat). They go out for an hour and make 100K credits. First and foremost, subtract 6K for round trip costs. Then subtract probably another probably 10K to 20K for Stims, Pet Stims, and Vitality Packs. As they fight these huge lairs, they take hits causing armor to decay and they make MASSIVE use of their guns (with powerups, slices, and using overcharged shots, they are decaying their guns in only a few days). So, let's say their gun ran them upwards of 30K (just as an example of a high end advanced FWG5 post slice...maybe 56/220/2.0). And if it was the same gun with a Krayt Tissue the gun would be about 56/250/1.7 post slice. That gun would sell for upwards of 100K. So, let's say that repair kits don't always work, so rather than taking a chance on killing the weapon, u just use it til it's all used up. A lot of high end combat classes are going through guns in just a few days. So, even at the lowest end, that's another 10K a day, if not up to 33K a day in weapons alone. So, for a 100K run of missions, they have 6K travel expenses, let's say 15K in stims (human, pet, vitality packs, etc), 5K in armor degredation and at least 10K in weapon degredation if not 33K. Worst case, they are making less than 50K in an hour of running missions. Best case, they are making probably only 70K or so on an hour worth of missions.

So, we can't just assume that they head to Endor, play for an hour, and come home with 100K in their pockets. And u must remember, for these particular combat classes, armor, weapons, droids, and pets are MUCH MUCH more important. So, their money will go there first and to structures absolutely last. After buying new armor, new weapons (yes I mean plural), a new droid, and maybe even a new pet or two (if they don't have something they want or their current pet just isn't as strong as another), they may only have 10K credits to spend on architecture stuff. So, a large house may come across as a bit expensive to them.

You gotta remember where priorities are for combat classes. And in reality, their priorities are in the right place. If they go buy a house instead of a new decent weapon, or armor then they may not be able to go out and fight anymore. To make money, they must fight. To fight they must make money to buy armor, weapons, droids, pets, etc. So, don't just assume that combat classes have 100K of discretionary income to spend on anything as soon as they get back from Endor. It just doesn't work that way.

Brandt

I don't think it was the consumer's fault. Early in the game, players would be in the starport area yelling prices of 10k for small houses, etc. As such, they set the standard in pricing. When more architects camine, they foolishly lowered their price to compete with the 10k. As such, it became imbedded that small houses should cost less than 10k.

"I don't think it was the consumer's fault. Early in the game, players would be in the starport area yelling prices of 10k for small houses, etc. As such, they set the standard in pricing. When more architects camine, they foolishly lowered their price to compete with the 10k. As such, it became imbedded that small houses should cost less than 10k. "

I dont have a problem with prices... well I do, but that is the way the wookiee cookie crumbles.. no ones fault and that is how the player run economy works.

What I am trying to say is the attitude and rudenes that comes from people that could make 25k in 15 minutes, then have a fit if you didnt want to give them your 4 hours of work, for their 15 mintues of work.

Takes a special kind of person to want(want as in arrogant entitlement, rudeness, sarcasm to get)240 of your minutes for 15 of theirs, and I would say that is not the kind of person you would want to deal with in RL on a daily basis.

Anian you have a point, yet I think you vastly overestimate the costs involved with an expeditionto endor.

Most soloer are CH, so they're not often hit (or they probably shouldn't for their own safe), so armor is probably not decaying at accelerated rate.

You speak of powered up overcharging krayt guns. Most people know better than to /overcharge with krayts, and if they don't, they should have learned by now. That power-up wears the gun out is not yet widely known, but people informed and rich enough to get krayt are probably informed of that fact too.

And an expedition bringing 100K/hour (without cost) is very unlikely to lastjust one hour. When you do the effort of going to endor, yavin or danthomir, generally you set camp there for awhile, so the travel costs are really not that significant either.

The real point about prices is that there's two kind of players : players that can (and do)undertakethe 25K missions because they are master something-combat-related. And the other.

The first category can pay high prices for almost anything, and money means not much to them.

The second category are stranded in non-retributive professions and do not understand how comes a gun can cost 150Kc or a house 250K, since it would take them several weeks of relentlessly doing <1K missions to come up with that kind of liquidities for something not vital (they too would need to repair their stuff as well).

If I'm exaggerating then so is the original poster. You can't make enough money to buy 2 small houses and half a third in 15 mins. You gotta put the costs into perspective. In that 15 mins (even if it has been days of playing), at least 3K if not 5K of that money has been put into items needed to run those missions. Of course it may not seem that way to some seeing that they may have bought those items over time and not all at once. But, the reality of it all is that all these soloers can't just make 100K in an hour. They have costs too.

Anian

Actually, if you played it right, you could go to Endor and make a ton of money with very few expenses. I know because I did it as a novice rifleman with acowardly gurreck.

Sure, you had to buy your tickets to get there, plus 1,000 to store your clone, but after that it was fairly easy...

STAGE 1:First, keep going through the missions until you get two high-paying Pubam missions. Then run out and find them:if you're lucky, a Panshee camp will be nearby. Make the Pubam go aggro on you, then run to the Panshee camp; since they're mortal enemies, they'll fight each other while you sit back and pop bleedshots into the Pubams. They go down pretty quickly, leaving an empty camp for you to destroy.

To save your weapon, you get out your pet and tell it to attack the lair while you take a break for 10-15 minutes. You come back, boom, 20-25k in your pocket. Store your pet, rinse and repeat. This will also give you a ton of Panshee faction, which you use to turn around and do Stage 2 with (which is much easier).

STAGE 2: Now that you have maxed your Panshee faction, you start taking 'destroy Panshee camp' missions. The Panshee love you now and will attack anything that is attacking you... heck, they'll even heal you in battle!

At anyrate, you find your Panshee camp. DON'T SHOOT THEM! You don't want to make them mad at you. What you do is find any aggro spawn or lair nearby, get those mobs to aggro on you, then run to the camp. Let the mobs wear down and kill the Panshees (who will attack the mobs to protect YOU, their ally... poor, stupid Ewoks... also, youwon't lose Panshee faction this way), then mop up whatever is left alive. Again, whip out your pet to actually destroy the camp. You earn a ton of money and only lose a very small amount of Panshee faction (which you can make up almost instantly the next Pubam mission you take).

This is just how I did it, but it's an example of how you actually COULD make a ton of money in a relatively short amount of time, solo, with very few expenses. If I could work out a system that allowed me (a relatively weak fighter) to make several hundred thousand in a few days of casual play, I'm sure other people with their AT-STs and advanced pets made millions.

The point: Smart fighters DID have tons of money, and they WERE just being greedy if they tried to get you to lower your prices.

A night on Dathomir with my BE working on sampling came home that night with smpling I through IV done and 450k richer. No this wasn't done in 15 minutes. But it was done in a day over the weekend.

My expenses - 3 round trip tickets to dath from correlia4800 ea if I recall so 14.4K in travel.

Chewed through half my FWG5 ~400/850 at the end of the day. Gun cost me aroun 10k.

1k to clone on dath, 1k to clone back on corellia - 2k total

So if i just destroy my gun and get a new one my total expenses for the day where 26400 credits. My net profit was 423K credits for running ~35 seething bol missions at 13ka pop.

Obviously as a BE i can cheese my way through missions since sampling will ultimatly kill the mob outright, then all i need to do is sit there for 5 minutes while i try to destroy the hive.

The earning potential from missions is what is ultimatly destroying the econmoy. Other classes can accomplish the same they just need to use different "tactics" to do so. Expenses are not that high for this type of expidition.

I appreciate your dual point of view, but I have to say I respectfuly agree and disagree on some things.

"First and foremost, the trip to Endor runs most players around 6K credits round trip (or close to it)."

I agree, that is what the trip costs.

So, let's say it was a Master CH (who could solo these missions w/out breaking a sweat). They go out for an hour and make 100K credits. First and foremost, subtract 6K for round trip costs. Then subtract probably another probably 10K to 20K for Stims, Pet Stims, and Vitality Packs.

***I have a CH/Pistoleer. When I go to a high end planet, I do it for more than an hour. If I don't I log off and come back whenever, still on that planet. The 6k is not a repeatitive cost, in that it is not 6k per hour. That is untrue. You can mostly likely equate that cost to 6-20+ hours. You go to endor, play for a few hours or all day, or log off an evening then next time on, you come back to the same planet and repeat.

*** Even as not beinga MCH with fewer pets to rotate in and out I know I do not go through 20-30k in stims. I have had a crate of 50 stim b's that has lasted me quite some time. I have pet stims that I buy that I may go through 3k in an evening, just as a little edge keeping pets up, but not as a total healing tool.

As they fight these huge lairs, they take hits causing armor to decay and they make MASSIVE use of their guns (with powerups, slices, and using overcharged shots, they are decaying their guns in only a few days).So, let's say their gun ran them upwards of 30K (just as an example of a high end advanced FWG5 post slice...maybe 56/220/2.0). And if it was the same gun with a Krayt Tissue the gun would be about 56/250/1.7 post slice. That gun would sell for upwards of 100K. So, let's say that repair kits don't always work, so rather than taking a chance on killing the weapon, u just use it til it's all used up. A lot of high end combat classes are going through guns in just a few days. So, even at the lowest end, that's another 10K a day, if not up to 33K a day in weapons alone.

*** Yes, guns do get used and degrade, but not at the rate you are saying. I have been using the same DX2 and FWG5 for a month now. I have had them repaired about twice, and they are still good to go. Your assertion that people use up guns at 10k to 33k is over I think. I have never heard of someone using a gun till its all up, that does not make any sense. Until yesterdays patch, you could repair a gun that is "almost" up as good as you could a slightly damaged one. With that in mind, there was at least one good time to repair it, and that was right before it was about gone. At that point you have nothing to loose. If people where dumb enough to totally wear out a gun, then the added cost and profit loss is their own dumb fault. Also, why are people using overcharge shot on a 100k gun, when there are allot better specials? Again, the extra wear and cost is that persons fault, and I think that few would do it.

So, for a 100K run of missions, they have 6K travel expenses, let's say 15K in stims (human, pet, vitality packs, etc), 5K in armor degredation and at least 10K in weapon degredation if not 33K. Worst case, they are making less than 50K in an hour of running missions. Best case, they are making probably only 70K or so on an hour worth of missions."

*** Armor degradation. The CH in your example is not getting hit, if he is, it is not often enough to wear out the armor. The evidence is in the discussion to change creature AI and make the CH a target. So the 5k per run I would not count.

Finally your math is flawed... You are saying 70k an hour, in that is the 6k travel costs. That 6k is only true if after every hour of playing on Endor, the player in question, for no reason, would travel from, then back to the planet.

But, even if I take your 70k and agree with you, that is still 70k. That is still totally unacceptable for a player that can make 70k(your own numbers) and walk into an architect shop andthrow a fit that a 5 cpu price is (insert sarcastic comment here).

Even with your own numbers, these people are still coming in and arrogantly expecting a trade of time in the order of(my example was 15 minutes for 240 minutes)15 minutes for 160 minutes.. as in your 15 minutes is worth more than my almost three hours.

Anyway, my problem was not with the current prices, but in a 70k an hour a player acting nasty and sarcastic about buying something that took someone else 4 hours to gather the resources and make...

This will be less of an issue soon though, because honestly, I do not think SOE ever intended people to be able to make 1 million credits a day. With this change though, I shudder at the idea...

If a player with a one day profit of 1 million credits acted like a jerk for a 10k house, I would hate to see that same player with a one day profit of 100k for a 10k house.

Id imagine a one minute temper tantrum for every credit after 5k..