Architect Archive
Thread: Architect Profitablity
ok all these numbers are averaged, the assumptions are thay you use none of the minerals you mine and you sell at a strict 3cpu and you sell no power, all resource concentrastions are at 60%, and you run the harvester for ten hours
i subtracted the cost from the sale price then found the profit % of the cost
firsdt lets calculate cost of energy
Personal wind generator 60cph BER 9
extraction rate is 5.4 thats 5400 in ten hours useing 600 credits, that is ~ .11 creits per unit
Personal size harvester 30cph 25pph BER 4 = ~(2.4) 2400 units (sell for 7200c)
300 credits an hour and 250 power, 328c ~2042% of what we spent to get it
Medium 60cph 50pph BER 10 (6) 6000units (sell for 18000c)
600credits 500 power translates to 655c ~ 2729% net profit
Heavy 90cph 70pph BER 13(7.8) 7800 (sell for 23400) we should be able to get over BER 13 after the fix
900 credits 700power = 977c ~ 2295% net profit
NOTE: take into consideration that you DID NOT use ANY minerals and sold NO power. and the above assumptions. (power will cost a little more 60% wind isn't average) now if you use the majority of your minerals your net profit will decrease exponentialy buy if we sell 40% then i estimate that we should still be getting 200 - 300% net profit ( in the real world average is 80% net profit in the average small business)
Check my numbers tell me if i'm wrong. i'm pretty sure i got it right though. Just a thought on what we could sell at. Hint: we could lower our prices
Are you trying to convince us of something? I kind of missed the point.
It might make things clearer if you would structure your post something along these lines:
1. I think that XXX could be true.
2. Here are my calculations that lead me to believe that.
3. At this point either the calculations are correct or they aren't. If they aren't, then you've learned something. If they are, then you can go ahead with your assertion.
That way we could understand what you are trying to accomplish and review the numbers in that light.
However, given that we aren't really clear on your intent, let's just look at your numbers.
A BER9 wind generator on a 60% spot will produce 7776 units of power and cost you 1869 credits (daily cost plus 1/7th of redeed), for a cost of 0.24 credits / unit of power.
A BER4 personal harvester on a 60% spot will pull up 3456 units of resources a day, at a cost of 0.31 credits per unit (counting power at 0.24 cpu).
A BER13 heavy harvester on a 60% spot will pull up 11323 units of resources a day, at a cost of 0.29 credits per unit (counting power at 0.24 cpu still - which is dumb because at that point you'd use fusion - but it doesn't matter much.)
I can't for the life of me understand why people worry about the operating costs (within some bounds). If you are mining stuff up for 0.25-0.35 credits per unit and selling it for 2-3 credits per unit, then 0.0x difference isn't going to matter a bit.
Here's a thought experiment for you:
- Imagine that someone is using a BER4 personal harvester today. They pull up that 3456 units of resources, pay out 1078 credits in maint, redeed, and power, and sell that resource for 2.5 cpu. They clear - in profit - 7562 credits per day.
- Assume that they spend that money on something else (we don't care what) - that is, they are counting on 7562 credits per day of money being available.
- I'm going to hand them a BER13 heavy harvester and say: put this out instead of the BER4, sell each day's resources at 2.5 cpu, pull out not only the operating costs for that harvester (which are higher than the personal) but also pull out that 7562 a day for yourself (living expenses
), and then set aside the extra profit. After 10 days of that, give me the extra profit you made and then you can have that harvester free and clear to take all of the profit for yourself from that moment onward.Does that seem "fair" to you? Should it be less days? More days? What should the miner expect as a "payback period" for their initial investment? That is, at what point have they paid back the purchase price and it's all gravy from then on?
Your math is bad, and is not following your own assumptions...
5.4 x 60min x 10hrs = 3240, not 5400
2.4 x 60min x 10hrs = 1440, not 2400
6.0 x 60min x 10hrs = 3600, not 6000
7.8 x 60min x 10hrs = 4680, not 7800
And no, our heavy harvesters will not begetting better than BER 13 after the patch. They are working as expected as it is. The harvesters that do need fixing tho are the solar and fusion harvesters. Experimentation is not working on those.
Now, there's one major point that I don't understand, so I will ask you point blank...
What is the point of your post?
I'm sure I'm not alone in this when I say that I don't understand what you want us to believe. Are you telling us to raise or lower the prices or resources? Or telling us that we need to charge more/less for harvesters, or what?
Tarthos_Intarca wrote:Check my numbers tell me if i'm wrong. i'm pretty sure i got it right though. Just a thought on what we could sell at. Hint: we could lower our prices
The ROI on a $150K BER13 heavy is pretty damm good, which is why the resources that go into a BER13 harvester are worth more when assembled in "harvester" form than they are in "large house" form, or in "grinding material sold on bazaar" form.
Just a thought on what we could sell at if we were running businesses and not nonprofit organizations dedicated to doing hour-long harvester runs, assembling things in factories, and selling them to you at cost. Hint: we could charge whatever price a free market will bear.
These posts with the formulas straight out of swgcraft.com crack me up. I think the original post was trying to make a case for lowering prices. The problem with the formulas on swgcraft.com is that they don't account for the "incidental" costs incurred as a result of taking on the profession of Architect. I will bullet point the "hidden" costs I am talking about:
- redeed costs
- travel coststo survey and place harvesters
- factory costs (maintenenance/power)
- lost revenue of 2 lots from Structure factory REQUIRED to make most advanced schematics.
- Amount of time spent seeking Ore concentrations over 60%.
- Initial expense of building or purchasing harvester fleet. *** My fleet has a street value of over 1.5 million
- lost resources/components from critical failures.
Calculate these costs into yourformulas and you may find that Architect prices may be a little low.
Well i personaly am sick of peeps saying that we charge to much for this and that.. look at what weaponsmiths make on things.. they don't usehardlyanythingfor materials and look at what they charge.. And pls don't get me wrong.. i am not trying to cut down WS.. they work hard on there stuff as well.. but I personaly have semi retired makeing things.. i have gotten tired of peeps saying i charge to much.. I still build for customers that I have becuase they understand what kinda time goes into it.. you think about the materials lost when you have to make factory runs on things or even at a Master Archi i still have crits on things.. AND YES THEY SUCK AND TAKE ALOT OF RESOURCES TO REPLACE.. you don't always have enough materials just to keep useing the same schematic for a long time..I charge what ever i want for my stuff.. And i am not over priced.. I am underpriced IMO .. i would love to be able to charge what other professions charge like 15cpu bug we can't.. So for you peeps that say you can't hardly make money, BULL.. A peep is can go run missions and in 20 mins time have made 20k easly.
Madmax Hawkens / Tempest
Master Architect 4.4.4.4
Master Medic 4.4.4.4
Novice Doctor 3.4.3.1
Novice Artisan 4.0.4.2
Tarthos_Intarca wrote:
Hint: we could lower our prices
You could lower your prices if you want.
Telling competitors to sell cheaper won't get it done. The only way to get prices down in a market with this much competition is to hold a significantly large portion of the market. On top of that, you'd have to have all of the resources at the same orbetter qualities than your competitors. Barring all of those contingencies, people are going to charge whatever they please, and people will pay it.
The intial post was not intendaned to command anyone to lower prices, and unlike EVERY post here i am sure someone outhere aprreciated the post me havingdone the math for them. i double checked the numbers the formula for minerals extracted was divide the Base by 100 to get 1% multiply that by the 60% that will give you your actual extraction rate (2.4) the extraction rate in game is in Kg so take 2.4 multiply by 100 you get what you extract per hour multiply by ten equals 2400 so i'm right on
neway YES you can sell at what ever you want the REASON FOR THE POST was for those out there that understand business markup for retail prices most common in the real world is a 60 to 75% mark up so i posted this as FYI for those who cared. there was no purpose for the post but who knew it would rocket off like this.
I am not saying we charge too much but if we compare us to real life we are the best business ever
AND I DID NOT TAKE THESE EQUATIONS FROM SWGCRAFT
call me wierd... i like to know my numbers for the cost of the resources no i did not include incedental costs
please take all my furture post OBJECTIVELY non-biased, non-condemingly, purely factoral and neutral, SUGGESTIONS wanting a little feedback. not critisim \
I apologize if i have offended anyone
Tarthos_Intarca wrote:The intial post was not intendaned to command anyone to lower prices, and unlike EVERY post here i am sure someone outhere aprreciated the post me having done the math for them. i double checked the numbers the formula for minerals extracted was divide the Base by 100 to get 1% multiply that by the 60% that will give you your actual extraction rate (2.4) the extraction rate in game is in Kg so take 2.4 multiply by 100 you get what you extract per hour multiply by ten equals 2400 so i'm right on
neway YES you can sell at what ever you want the REASON FOR THE POST was for those out there that understand business markup for retail prices most common in the real world is a 60 to 75% mark up so i posted this as FYI for those who cared. there was no purpose for the post but who knew it would rocket off like this.
I am not saying we charge too much but if we compare us to real life we are the best business ever
AND I DID NOT TAKE THESE EQUATIONS FROM SWGCRAFT
call me wierd... i like to know my numbers for the cost of the resources no i did not include incedental costs
please take all my furture post OBJECTIVELY non-biased, non-condemingly, purely factoral and neutral, SUGGESTIONS wanting a little feedback. not critisim \
I apologize if i have offended anyone
No offence taken. Archies go through huge amounts of resources at lousy margins. That means that the things we make cost a fortune, and we're often getting razzed by people saying "Dubya Tee Eff D00d" when they find out how much something costs.
But if resources are "worth" 3cpu on the bazaar (even though they cost less than 0.5cpu to mine), and a house that takes 15000 resources to build sells for 60K credits, we're only "making" 1cpu in marginal profit by bothering to build it.
In the Real World (tm), those are good margins.
In SWG's economy, where six $10000 guns can fetch the same $60000 for a relative pittance in resource cost, architecture is still a low margin business.
I sometimes wonder if "3cpu" didn't originate because it was easy to break stuff up into stacks of 1000 and that there's a 3000 credit limit on the bazaar.
I'd very much like to see that limit raised to 4000 credits... and see if the "3cpu" price "sticks". (Or lowered to 2000 credits, and see if resources become "cheaper"). The only way to do this fairly would be to do it on a brand-new server with a new playerbase.
(I'm not seriously suggesting that the Devs do this -- I'm just curious from an economic standpoint as to whether it's possible/likely that an accident arising from the user interface for bazaar sales actually affected something as central to the economy as the price of resources.)