Architect Archive
Thread: Heavy Mineral extractors and experimentation, I need a few question answered
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Tcornwall
Thu Feb 05, 2004 12:54 pm
#1
I have steel that has stats980+ for unit toughness, heat and .... the other that the harvesters depend on. I used to ba a master architect but dropped the furniture tree. I had a master architect make my ore mining unit schematic for me with 97% success, which gave it an extract rate of 6. Now what matters here the extract rate of 6 or the 97%. The reason I ask is because I put together the harvester and had experimental effectivness at 24% to start and the bars for 100% I believe were available. Is it possible for me to get a 14 without the experimentation that comes with Master? If not I will have a friend assembly it who got the 97% on the mining unit and is a master.
When I assembled the one I made I got 47% total experimantation cause I only had 1 point maybe 2 to work with, not really sure. The harvester came as an 11 which is fine since it won't make that big of a difference. Thanks for any assistance.
Manipulative
Thu Feb 05, 2004 2:39 pm
#2
On the subject of different units being more difficult, I think a lot has to do with the overall malleability of what you are making. When we use a lot of chemical in a schematic, there is no malleability stat for the chemical. It feels to me like (no hard data), but it just feels like when a resource has no malleability stat, having that resource in play makes experimentation harder.
I feel this pain the most crafting CM components. There a schem that calls for radioactive and intert gas. Neither of those resources have a malleability stat, and those components are really, really hard for me to experiment successfully.
So, getting back to harvesters, chem harvesters require a very large quantity of chemical, and I think that high quantity of chemical, which has zero malleability, is why chem extracters seem "hard" to get to BER 13. For whatever reason, it feels like when malleability is not in a resource, that resource gets a value of 0 for mall, instead of the average of the remaining resources.
LadyLeala
Thu Feb 05, 2004 3:04 pm
#3
Well... Heavy Mineral Mining installations and Deep Crust Chemical extractors both use the same amount of chemical (400 units), so that doesn't add up...
Pawlin
Thu Feb 05, 2004 4:32 pm
#4
LadyLeala wrote:
Well... Heavy Mineral Mining installations and Deep Crust Chemical extractors both use the same amount of chemical (400 units), so that doesn't add up...
You were saying that you used the same steel on Ore Mining Units and on Turbo Fluidic Drilling Units but got different results. OMU's use no chemical. TFDU use 360 chemical each. The chemical is probably causing the difference. Try using lube oil as the chemical.
StumanKadir
Thu Feb 05, 2004 4:38 pm
#5
Plus if you use Lube oil for the chem (instead of polymers), the stats on that gets ignored in the final calc.
Pawlin
Fri Feb 06, 2004 1:23 am
#7
Do you have the construction tree? You need it to get the structure experimentation skill points in order to get any decent results in experimenting.
You will pretty much need to get great successes on the experimentation for it to come out as a BER 13.
LadyLeala
Fri Feb 06, 2004 1:31 am
#8
The rate 6 is the only thing that is taken into account. And the ore mining units achieve rate 6 at around 65-70%. Anything beyond that on the ore mining units doesn't do any good. Once you see that it has a rate of 6, you're at the maximum.
The next stage is the actual crafting of the harvestor itself... and the problem you are running into is that you are running out of experimentation points. If you are 0440 in your tree, you CAN make the rate 13 harvestors, but you won't make them as consistently as a Master. You should have 9 points to experiement with, and with that steel you mentioned, it will take all 9 of those points to hit 13. So that leaves no room for error during hte experimentation. 
At master, you get the extra experimentation points necessary to make 13s consistently.
Oh, you could do it with skill tapes, if you had enough to give +10 to Structure Experimentation.
Hope this helps. 
ZenDragonMLS
Fri Feb 06, 2004 1:42 am
#9
LadyLeala wrote:The rate 6 is the only thing that is taken into account. And the ore mining units achieve rate 6 at around 65-70%. Anything beyond that on the ore mining units doesn't do any good. Once you see that it has a rate of 6, you're at the maximum.
I don't believe this is correct at all. We have had several people report that they hit rate=6 on the OMU and still have troubles hitting BER13, or needed higher levels on the final assembly than other folks. Reegan has posted here an equation for determining the final BER of a harvester, and it explicitly depends not on that "rate" but instead on the underlying quality of the unit.
The best way to think about this is probably to think that the display says "rate: 6" but is only showing the integer part of the rate. Based on that display, you wouldn't know if it was "6.00000001" or "6.9999999".
The near-universal reccommendatation here seems to be to experiment that OMU up as high as you possibly can get it, and then I suggest wiring that result right into the schematic name. So I have 'OMU +96 0127' units sitting around - and I know exactly what that represents.
LadyLeala
Fri Feb 06, 2004 1:48 am
#10
ZenDragonMLS wrote:
I don't believe this is correct at all. We have had several people report that they hit rate=6 on the OMU and still have troubles hitting BER13, or needed higher levels on the final assembly than other folks. Reegan has posted here an equation for determining the final BER of a harvester, and it explicitly depends not on that "rate" but instead on the underlying quality of the unit.
The best way to think about this is probably to think that the display says "rate: 6" but is only showing the integer part of the rate. Based on that display, you wouldn't know if it was "6.00000001" or "6.9999999".
The near-universal reccommendatation here seems to be to experiment that OMU up as high as you possibly can get it, and then I suggest wiring that result right into the schematic name. So I have 'OMU +96 0127' units sitting around - and I know exactly what that represents.
Not a bad idea at all.. And I'd like to apologize for making my post sound so finite considering that I haven't tested this from every angle. But I will say this: Different TYPES of units are more/less difficult to produce. For example... I made a batch of Ore Mining units, and a batch of Turbo Fluidic Mining units. I used the same steel for both schematics. And I used the same steel for the final product. But the chemical extractors were MUCH more difficult to get to Rate 13 than the Minerals were. So that may be what that person was running into. I'm not sure.
I just got a huge batch of high quality steel last night.. so maybe I'll run a few different test runs on these theories and post my results. (Maybe )
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