Architect Archive

K, 2nd attempt to write this with the Login down, and thus much traffic...

Short version:

Why are Large extractors less efficient than mediums? Cost increase is 50%. From 9-12 (33% increase) for a Master Architect without a city or tapes, to 10-13 (30% increase) for one with all the goodies, there is an obvious INCREASE to cost vs production.

For sales-intended resources you still come out a bit ahead, but for personal/clan use the heavies are less than worthless, they actually cost you a decent amount MORE...


What is the standing reason for this? Has Dev mentioned any upcoming changes?


-Syntyrynn Moriarti, Tempest

OK, lets play with the math.

Assumptions:
Power costs = 2 credits per unit (yes, you can do better)
Concentration = 60% (yes, you can do better)
Resource pricing = 2.50 credits / unit (this is what you can sell them for in bulk OR if you are a crafter what they cost you in bulk)
Redeed every 7 days, so factor the redeed cost into the daily expenses.

Calcuation Results:

A BER10 medium harvester takes 4269 credits per day to run and pumps up 8640 units of resources. That works out to be 0.49 credits per unit of resource mined. When sold on the open market you net (after operating expenses) 17731 credits per day.

A BER13 heavy harvester takes 6403 credits per day to run and pumps up 11232 units of resources. That works out to be 0.57 credits per unit of resource mined. When sold on the oper market you net (after operating expenses) 21677 credits per day.

Conclusions:

1. The operating cost per unit mined of favors the medium over the heavy by 0.08 credits per unit.

2. It doesn't matter a bit.

3. If you are a miner, you can take that 4346 extra profit (per harvester, per day) to the bank and enjoy it.

4. If you are a crafter, you can surely take that extra 2592 of resources per day and turn it into well over that in profit on finished goods.

5. If you are a crafter that for some reason only needs 8640 units of resources a day and simply can't figure out why you'd ever want more, then sell that extra 2592 units on the open market and it will *completely pay* your operating costs for the harvester. Thus you get your 8640 units for free to pursue your crafting.

Honestly, I've really heard people say "oh, I'll use a medium because they are more effecient." Somehow the calcuations seem to favor the heavies every time when you run them. The whole "effeciency" thing is a red herring.

Each character has a finite number of lots. Each resource spawn lasts a finite time. The person who mines the most up makes the most profit - either directly (resource sales) or indirectly (product sales). Period.

If you want to make money, use a heavy. If you don't, use a medium.

As I specialise in medium harvesters I feel duty bound to defend the economics of these.

ZenDragon is right that overall the long term economics for a heavy outweigh those of a medium, but that does not give the total picture. Not everybody can afford to buy and run these straight away. So when you buy your first batch of harvesters don't be fooled into waiting until you can afford a heavy. If you consider that as a ball park figure heavies cost around 2-3 times what mediums cost then unless you actually can rush out and buy 10 heavies straight off, it is far more economical to buy as many mediums as you can afford. You will get a better return for your investment immediately, allowing you to very quickly payback your initial investment and then turn a profit and then upgrade to heavies. I don't think I have to put the math down here, in simple terms you just need to consider difference in cost to buy (2-3 times for a hvy), difference in running costs (heavies are twice the cost in maintenance and power), and difference in efficiency (top rated hvy harvests additional 30 % that of a top rated medium).

So simply put if you can afford one heavy harvester at 13 BER, then you can afford at least 2 10 BER mediums. Those 2 mediums can be put to work straight away using between them the same maint and power as a single heavy whilst at the same time pulling in an additional 54% resources, although they will take up twice as many lots. The additional 54 pct resources will quickly cover your initial outlay.

Once you can afford to buy heavies then by all means do so, you can just trash your mediums if you like, they will have done their job, they will have got you up to maximum resource collection AND paid themselves down. But if they are getting you all the resources you need and you don't feel like competing in the resource sales market (after all it is not ALL about money, you should have some fun as well), or you don't have time to spend trying to sell extra resources because you are too busy doing what an architect does best -crafting- then just keep em.

hi

I understand your math and to a certain extent agree with what you say....but i have used heavys and i have used mediums.....I stuck with the mediums. In my situation they are more cost effective(BER10 that is)

I am what i guess is termd ...a harvester? Miner?.... I have over 125 plots that i have access to ,rent, use...and all i use is mediums...granted i have a big operation..... i can plant 90 harvs on aresource. within a day. Then put another 30 somewhere else.... I have to supply my own power for all of these and in my math i do better power wise and everywise with mediums. I have gone from an operation of 18 harvs to what i have today....and all done on mediums.....I have them all powered and maintained for min 4 days each....and i have more money now than ever.....i agree with your math ..as i said to a certain extent ,,,but to say that if you wanna make money only use the heavies, not the mediums...I disagree with. But to each his own....just wanted to share some of my findings.....

Howler

Master Architect

Master Artisan.......WOKIville

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dontholdmyears wrote:

but to say that if you wanna make money only use the heavies, not the mediums...I disagree with. But to each his own....just wanted to share some of my findings.....

Howler

Master Architect

Master Artisan.......WOKIville

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Perhaps a better quote would be "if you want to make more money" instead.

As for me, I agree completely with Zen. I run a faily large resource harvesting business, and except for some very old static harvesters, everything I run are BER 13 heavies, because it's all about production for me.

BTW - I *absolutely* agree with using mediums as a stepping stone. If you are just starting gathering resources, get 1-2 BER9 winds and 7-9 BER4 harvesters out there ASAP. Then as soon as you get ahead of the game, start upgrading. The exact upgrade sequence depends on your server economics and perhaps which resources you are focused on, but clearly upgrading 2-10 of your personals to mediums as soon as you can afford the capital expense is a no-brainer. Note that you may want to convert them all to mediums, or you may want to convert one batch (e.g., 4) and then after a week or so of the increased capacity upgrade the other personals to heavies incrementally. It really is variable - I don't think we can come up with some "rule of thumb" to optimize this path for anyone.

For the person running the huge farm of mediums, particularly since it is so extensive and you have a lot of cash now, I submit the following:

- if those mediums are all BER10 (which I assume that they are) they have a resale value on the market equivilent to a new one
- if you replaced all of those mediums with heavies, you would likely (depending on server economies and pricing) completely pay back that investment within 2 weeks
- if you replaced them then you would be getting 25% more profit in a sustained way
- if you replaced them then you could consider even dropping back on the number you have out and still keep your current profit level - this might save you work and/or give you more flexibility

Thanks to the previous posts and the math ...youmake sensein the numbers....I have not sat down and done all the numbers camparing hevys and meds so i am not disagreeing....I am on the game a limited time...not enough for all that i need to do....

1 i make all my own stuff ...and hevys are a Pain in the A** to make ..compared to the time it takes to make a medium...i use no macros

2. i "rent" from people about 90 or so plots now....no i dont know and trust everyone...and yes i have lost some...so i agree with pawlin....from a cost standpoint the mediums work out better....take less time to make...if someone steals them or mistakenly destroys them im not out all that much.

I agree - if you have static farms based on lot swaps with people you don't have control over, running mediums reduces your capital risk a lot. No arguement there.

Notice though that that isn't a statement about the *effeciency* at all - it's a statement about *capital* and *risk*.

I just think that the clearer you are about your reasons to chose one vs another the better a decision you can make.