Architect Archive
Thread: Resource Decay: The Only viable option since hoarders don't want others to compete.
Message Edited by Opie76 on 08-25-2005 10:39 PM
You should read my post on the test discussion. I'm sure they'll all have a opinion about it. 
Fivo Asia
Opie76 wrote:
2.. Implement Resource Decay
*Make it so each resources has a unique half-life. After so much time it begins to break down. Depending on the quality of the resource it could decay at a slower or faster rate.
Resource decay is just silly to even bring up.
But his anger is understandable with the double-standards we see. Too bad the Weaponsmith correspondent and community chooses which resource buffs to mess over. I didn't notice him arguing against CD ranges be experimented on a ration to 1000.
Cafa wrote:
Resource decay is just silly to even bring up.
But his anger is understandable with the double-standards we see. Too bad the Weaponsmith correspondent and community chooses which resource buffs to mess over. I didn't notice him arguing against CD ranges be experimented on a ration to 1000.
Funny how a change that makes the best possible with INTENTIONAL RESOURCE CAPS is okay but something that would help all crafters is bad.
Fivo Asia
10% was huge.. I mean think of it.. within 4 days ( if that ) I was prepared to dump 1500 perfect harvesters heavy and medium... and a good 500ish perfect stations on the market.... and it would have been a peice of cake... How good would that have been for the economy... 2% still makes it possible but very tough.. personally for me I am fine with the decision to cut it to 2%
Pawlin wrote:
Opie76 wrote:
2.. Implement Resource Decay
*Make it so each resources has a unique half-life. After so much time it begins to break down. Depending on the quality of the resource it could decay at a slower or faster rate.
Deja vu
We had an 11 page argument about this already and your side lost that debate big time.
ah... I dont know if I would say Big Time...
I agree 10% might have been a little overboard. But where is the compromise? We went from one extreme to another.
What is wrong with at least 5%? Forgetting Weaponsmiths for a minute, how many other crafters were going to actually cap if 5% is implemented. Lets not forget that the "elite crafters" on each server only account for about 10% of the total number of crafters. Yet, they are crying the loudest when the playing field might be leveled somewhat.
I for one now despise Weaponsmiths for they are not here to make suggestions to balance the game, but to have decisions made that will benefit their wallets the most.
Example: Few weeks ago there was a certain Elite Weaponsmith on flurry that was buying all the Enhanced cells for 500k apiece, even though they going price was 5mil at the time. Strike 1. Next this person came to the forums spouting off that they need to nerf these enhancers. Strike 2. Funny by doing such a thing, this person would be sitting on a pile of equipment he bought cheaply which would allow him to make "Godly wepons" which he could sell for 10-20 mil apieace.
Back to the issue at hand. I Respeced out of Shipwright/Artisan a few months ago to give BE/CHef a chance. It's been fun ,but frustrating. I don't have the RL time to harvest the best resoruces. This buff would have provided me with a little better chance to make foods of greater quality. I'm just lazy and I buy 800-850 OQ quality stuff off vendors and even at 5% i'd be happy.
Pawlin wrote:
Cafa wrote:
...
Say an iron had a CD cap of 100. Well, NOW, instead of maxxing at 10% on the experimentation table for having a CD of 100, said iron will NOW experiment at 100%. Essentially a 1,000% bonus for weaponsmiths and armorsmiths in that specific example.
Fivo Asia
Yeah. So? I don't see how that nerfed or hurt anything. It raised their effective caps.
Before that change: they had a iron with cond capped at say 100 so it counted as 100/1000. So they could experiment and hit a wall on their stats. Like damage might come out as 800 with best materials
After that change: the cond countedrelative to its cap so 100/100.So when they experiment they could hit a higher wall on stats. Might have made damage now be 820 for best materials.
Net effect was it increased the caps tothe items. It did that for all crafters impacted, new or old.
Its like if they changed the grading on SAT scores so the new cap would be 820 rather than 800. Everyone is still taking the same test with the same #2 pencil.
Oh, and it did actually impact crafting station experimentaion. Just in a very subtle and fairly insignificant way.
Exactly, it did not nerf anything. It was a specific boost to those professions. Architect, OTOH, receive nothing.
This latest resource buff at 10% would have been a boon to architect and people are calling for nerfs.
No, they got their nerfs, further alienating entertainers (apparently) and other crafting professions that don't get the benefit of this.
By your analogy, everyone would still have the #2 pencil with the 10% resource buff.
Oh, and it did not effect crafting stations from an architect's perspective. Components at the MA changed in an insignificant manner, but not architect crafting.
So, again, I put forth, they got a massive boon to two specific professions and cried nerf on something that would have helped us. If nothing else, cycling in BER 14 heavies would have given new income to architects that hasn't existed before. No one seems to mind when new loot components get introduced to weaponsmithing and the entire populace pays millions to swap out a single weapon. But, heaven forbidarchitects get a similar event.
Fivo Asia
Message Edited by Cafa on 08-26-2005 01:08 AM
Cafa I honestly think if this change was implemented it would have nerfed a lot of crafting straight down to mediocrity. It would have done so for crafting stations. WE would have gained an easy +1 BER. Thats all. But it might have come at the expense of making WS, Chef, BE and Armorsmith boring and essentially ruined.
The previous change in how they handled caps on stuff like conductivity didn't hurt anyone. Nobody. Least not as far as I can seee. So no I don't care if that change went in. Whats the harm? I'm not going to complain about other profs getting something good for them if it doesn't hurt anyone. Why would we??
THe +10% resource buff might very well have hurt several crafting professions in a major way. But we would have gotten an easy +1 BER and fairly easy capped stations at 45 or close to it. I don't call that a fair trade. I don't want our benefit to come at the expense of nerfing others. And we wouldn't like it if WS wanted a bonus at the expense of nerfing us either. I think that if they nerfed all those other crafting professions that would have been a major blow to the game in general. I like crafting in SWG a lot and I don't want to see the crafting game as a whole hurt more.
What would +1 BER really do for us? It would just move our bar for max BER up +1 and then we'd get a spurt of new sales. Then a few months later we'd be essentially in teh same situation we are now but the new standard would be BER11/14. And for stations it would have just raised the cap and might have hit 45 on some servers which means 'game over' as far as that challenge goes. And thats our only challenge left. Now granted I think harvester BER far outweighs the station rating as far as overall impact to our prof.
Message Edited by Pawlin on 08-26-2005 09:10 AM
+10% would have hurt all crafting Professions.. It would have removed the challenge out of crafting.. period.. and even more people would mass produce perfect items.. How is that good??
with +2% Perfect is still possible... But now it will be a step in the direction of the challenge we have been wanting... there finally will be a difference between what architects can produce... Some will be able to breach the capp and perfect BER Harves Some wont... there will be something for us to strive for...
that is good...
Is it a nerf if the feature hadnt been published yet?? I mean we are still getting a bonus... this situation is the same as if the Devs had said.. Ok Combatants we are going to give you a Magical Iwin button if you are Inspired. and then they thought about it and realized Hey.. a Magic Iwin button would make the game not very fun.... maybe its not a good idea to give combatants that.... I think we should be stokedthis is a clear example of SOE paying attention to what they are doing...
I was not fond of +10.. but it had nothing to do with veterans vs newbs and their resources they loved.... It was simply eminant mass production of the only thing that could surpase best of the best..... Perfect...
Pawlin wrote:
Cafa I honestly think if this change was implemented it would have nerfed a lot of crafting straight down to mediocrity. It would have done so for crafting stations. WE would have gained an easy +1 BER. Thats all. But it might have come at the expense of making WS, Chef, BE and Armorsmith boring and essentially ruined.
That's just bull. Chef and BE speficially would have benefitted from this. I play both of these professions extensively. Although I play weaponsmith on a more personal level, it would have done little with diminishing returns to effect that profession's top-end players. But I seethe Tempestserver with maybe 4 active architects, 4 really active chefs, 12 active weaponsmiths, 3 active armorsmiths, NO ACTIVE BE's, maybe 4 tailors, 2 active DE's and not much else. I have people begging me to make them architect materials daily because no one else will do so. I feel giving newcomers an edge to reach a playing field with diminishing returns would have changed this. Now, we get another token slap, and entertainers get really laden with another useless ability for their money-making ability.
The previous change in how they handled caps on stuff like conductivity didn't hurt anyone. Nobody. Least not as far as I can seee. So no I don't care if that change went in. Whats the harm? I'm not going to complain about other profs getting something good for them if it doesn't hurt anyone. Why would we??
The previous change DID hurt someone. It made previously crappy resources turn out gold. Weaponsmiths and armorsmiths now cap products because of it. But, heaven forbid anyone else would get that chance.
THe +10% resource buff might very well have hurt several crafting professions in a major way. But we would have gotten an easy +1 BER and fairly easy capped stations at 45 or close to it. I don't call that a fair trade. I don't want our benefit to come at the expense of nerfing others. And we wouldn't like it if WS wanted a bonus at the expense of nerfing us either. I think that if they nerfed all those other crafting professions that would have been a major blow to the game in general. I like crafting in SWG a lot and I don't want to see the crafting game as a whole hurt more.
May very well might have maybe could have in the light of a solar eclipse might have. Guess we'll never know now, eh?? This change would have nerfed no one. It was an enhancement to crafting. Seriously, carry your logic trail to its end, P. Shall we now outlaw research centers, Bespin Port, experimentation tapes? So getting 2 more experimentation points isn't game changing, but a 10% modifier to resource experimentation that isn't capped is? Come on.
What would +1 BER really do for us? It would just move our bar for max BER up +1 and then we'd get a spurt of new sales. Then a few months later we'd be essentially in teh same situation we are now but the new standard would be BER11/14. And for stations it would have just raised the cap and might have hit 45 on some servers which means 'game over' as far as that challenge goes. And thats our only challenge left. Now granted I think harvester BER far outweighs the station rating as far as overall impact to our prof.
Message Edited by Pawlin on 08-26-2005 09:10 AM
It, at a MINIMUM, would have stamped a recycling of harvestors for the playerbase. It would have provided income for new architects facing two years of sales of non-decaying product lines. AFA stations go, what is wrong with a little end-game love for architects?
Fivo Asia
Well CAfa lets just agree to disagree on this. I believe strongly that the +10% change would have caused wide spread overall harm to most of crafting.
Cafa wrote:
.... AFA stations go, what is wrong with a little end-game love for architects?
AFA stations go: this IMHO is a good example of how +10% change would have HURT.
Example: Right now on my server theres 3 of us making +44.x stations. Mine are 44.4x, Isanders at 44.6x and Freelove has some 44.9x still from Crafting Day. Theres a few other folks making 43.x or below.
THe thing differentiating me and Isander is the materials. Or he might have some old 99% DSCs left before they changed those to OQ/Cond instead of just OQ. Not sure.
Right now theres some competition. Thereres different price points. 44.9 = 149k from Freelove, 44.6 is fetching like 70k (I think ) from Isanser and my 44.4 are at 55k. The 43's and below go for less. Theres market variety.
Right now I still ahve a challenge in front of me... catch Isander. Isander has a challenge in front of him... some day hit the elusive perfect 45.0. A newer crafter making 43's still has a challenge to find that last material or 2 they need to hit the 44 level. We have a challenge. We have goals.
BUT with +10% resouce buff: You'd get Isander, me, Freelove and probably a few others capping resources at 1000 and now making 45.0. Theres no challenge left. Everyone just hit the brick wall of perfect. No need to do anything now, just pump out more 45's. If everyone is making 45 then what do we compete on? Price. We know how that works.. .undercutting. And if 45 is common then thats all anyone will want to buy, so if you're below that yoou're junk.
This example is how I believe it would work for a lot of crafted goods.
You know how common a 910 material is. If all it takes is 910+ to cap then everyone will. This is the situation we've got right now for harvesters. All we need is 900 range and we max BER. Everyone does... undercutting ensues.
+10% resource buff would turn the entire crafting game into something equivalent to harvester crafting.
Oops sorry, I said lets agree to disagree then I continued to make my argument. he he
Cafa, if you want to explain why you think the +10 resouces would have helped Chef for example then I'm interested. I play a chef casually but don't see the exact implication of the change to Chef immediately. But you've got a different playing style / perspective than me in general and you often make good points I wouldn't have thought of. So I'm interested in hearing how you think it would have panned out.
Maybe we can get them to reverse the 100/1000 <> 100/100 thing, and leave the buff at 10% then?
I agree wholeheartedly that WS and AS have been the "golden child" of SWG crafting for too long. I dont want to shove them in the basement, mind you, I just want the other crafting professions to enjoy the advantages and gameplay that those 2 do. I admit freely to a small amount of jealously. But I tried them both, and I just didnt like it. THe loot-enhancer thing bugs me. The perfect solution is to enhance the rest of us, particularly Architect and DE.
But, that will take time, and we all know the Devs are forbidden to spent more that 4.25% of their time on non-jedi enhancements. Heck, we even have a new jedi expansion now! They *say* its for all combat types, but we all know its really a jedi expansion.