Architect Archive
Thread: Economics for wookies or other thickheaded mammalian creatures.
Ok...chodayBoy.
IF a PA sells a lot of weapons. They use that profit so they can sell houses cheap. Why are they doing this?
It's not to make money because it's a net loss or at best break even (they are robbing Peter to pay Paul).
Is it just to drive YOU out of business? Not likely. First, I doubt there is a concentrated effort on the parts of PAs to drive "independant" architects out of business. For you to think so is self-centered. They aren't worried about you, they are worried about their PA. Second, any PA who THINKS they can do this are foolish. In an open system (open as in anyone can change proffesions at anytime or any new person can start a character at any time) they could NEVER stop "independant" operators.
So, it's not for money. It's not to drive you out of business. WHY are they doing this? Just to "grief" you. I doubt that too. It's too suble a form of "griefing" for it to be enjoyable for a "griefer".
The only logical answer is that your assumption that the architects are operating at a lost is flawed. They aren't. They are just better at the game then you are.
IF a PA sells a lot of weapons. They use that profit so they can sell houses cheap. Why are they doing this?
It's not to make money because it's a net loss or at best break even (they are robbing Peter to pay Paul).
Is it just to drive YOU out of business? Not likely. First, I doubt there is a concentrated effort on the parts of PAs to drive "independant" architects out of business. For you to think so is self-centered. They aren't worried about you, they are worried about their PA. Second, any PA who THINKS they can do this are foolish. In an open system (open as in anyone can change proffesions at anytime or any new person can start a character at any time) they could NEVER stop "independant" operators.
You are so wrong on this point Xader. I believe PA's are definitely considering driving people out of business. In the game world, the only true resource is time. Time to get funds, time to run harvesters, time to build buildings. PA's DOMINATE when it comes to time, and profit by it.
Example:
Billy, Joe, and Suzie are all entering the game at the same time. Billy and Suzie decide to get together and form a meta-PA. Joe decides to go it alone, and hope the market can keep him afloat. Billy starts working on the Artisan tree, moving towards Architect. So does Joe. Suzie goes out and starts running missions. Mission after mission after mission. 2k a pop. Hides, Bone, credits, and some resources too when she mines. Billy hits harvesters, more than a bit before Joe since he doesn't have to go out and survey or harvest. Billy makes and gives Suzie harvestors. They go set them up. They each have 8 harvesters and 2 wind generators. Joe sets his up, but he can only afford to set up 4 and 1, and he has to run missions that interrupt his crafting. Billy settles down to craft again, and Suzie continues to run missions. Suzie also runs the harvestors, keeping them well fed. Joe does it all himself. Billy uses Suzie's money to train. Joe has to find his own money. Billy reaches Arch twice as fast as Joe. Now Billy can make houses! He helps Suzie shift the harvestors. Suzie continues to run missions. Mission after mission. The money supplied by Suzie means that Billy never even has to CONSIDER selling a house. But he lets them go for 5k each, just to make it a bit easier on Suzie. Joe hits architect, and starts struggling to come up with house parts. He FINALLY gets one together, after 3 days of harvesting, and he finds the market flooded with Billy's houses. He's losing 1k+ per house!
Wow, it seems that Billy and Suzie are way better players. Nu-uh. The power of the PA is enormous. And once they hit the upper levels, they can really crack down on the prices. If everyone knows you have a PA Hall (huge prestige booster) and you have an architect who can make them AND your prices are HALF or LESS of what other people are charging, you can not only depress the low end market, but you can drive the up-and-comings out of the race before they even get started. Why you ask? Because once those who even have a chance of coming up are driven out, you keep your starter model prices low, selling at a loss. Then NO ONE can challenge you at the high end. You can charge whatever you'd like. The only way this can be challenged is by A) a'smith who's just picking up Architect or B) another driven PA.
You are missing the point of why PAs are doing this. They want a PA hall. They are grinding houses to get to the PA hall. So once they have it they will start charging more.
However, I think architects are screwed. Quality is the only thing that allows you to charge more. I will pay 10k for weapon A because of the quality vs weapon B. As far as I have seen a house is a house is a house. So some guy who is a marksman/architect and can hunt to cover resource costs can sell the house for 5-10k and not worry about anything. We need to bug the developers to allow for experimenting and quality on houses to affect maintenance costs.
However, I think you also have to look at your business plan. Start selling enough of your resources to cover the upkeep on extractors and generators. I find that typically 1/3 to 1/4 is enough. There are enough people who are still grinding through XP that will buy resources at 5-10 credits per unit. Granted it will take you longer to get to where you can build the house, but then you don't have the stress of having to charge 25k for it and never sell it.
The only thing I have to say about that Qworg is that PAs like to be rich. People, once they hit their skill set, want money. Fake money can sell for real money. It's going to be a pain to continually move harvesters around to sell at nothing profit. Especially as the servers mature. You're going to get everybody wanting at least one house. The demand is going to be huge then. Right now the demand is non-existent compared to supply. Sooner or later things will change and everything will sort out.
I don't make houses just to make houses. I make wall modules; I make generator turbines; I make Ore Mining Units; I make Manufacturing Mechanisms. I make these items because I know they will be useful to me later and also give me a lot of XP. Sure I'm taking the hit now like everybody else, but at least I have something to show for it.
"Am I devaluing the market and making it tougher for other Architects? Maybe, but that's not my problem. My concern is my PA, not the well being of every other Architect on the server. And if someone doesn't like it, they should join up with PA and stop worrying about making loads of cash to spend. I find it's MUCH more satisfying to help build an organization and city than it is to make the numbers in the bank account go up."
You sir, are a tool.
Houses at 10k or even 15k doesn’t net you “loads” of money. Let me demonstrate.
Two wookies live on Endor. They don’t need houses because they live in trees. Scoobaaca decides he wants to be an architect because there are a lot of hairless monkeys around. Lostmybacca decides he like to kill gnorts for reward money because they are really plaguing the memorial shrine to the death stars independent contractors.
Scoobaaca works day and night to harvest resources so that he can make houses for non-hairy types. Lostmybacca kills gnorts by the hundreds right outside of town at the Independent Contractors graveyard. While Scoobacca runs miles and miles away from town to find good building materials.
Lostmybacca at the end of the day earns 20k cr or so. Scoobacca at the end of the day has lost 9k or so maintaining/setting up harvesters.
Lostmybacca spends his credits on beer and a shiny new helmet and still has LOTS of money left over. Scoobacca sells his waste materials and a few prototype items and he buys some resources to help him pay his malignance fees.
Ok after a week of this Lostmybacca is as rich as a minor noble and has every conceivable tool used in the hunting of gnorts and Scoobacca has just manufactured his 1st house. Scoobacca thinks to himself "now ill sell my house and ill have some money to spend on beer and a shiny new overcoat". Scoobacca heads on over to the market place to sell his house for a modest 15k.
At the market Scoobacca runs into Lostmybacca who has just bought a house for 3k. Lostmybacca is taken back when Scoobacca falls down in the street weeping uncontrollably. Lostmybacca feels sorry for him and decides to donate 10k to him so he can get a good meal and a shiny new overcoat.
This story serves to make a couple of points. HOUSES ARE VERY AFFORDABLE AT EVEN 15K. Architects spend ALOT OF FREAKIN TIME TO GET TO THE POINT OF HOUSE CONSTRUCTION (unless of course they are given the materials by greedy XP whores).
I implore all artisans who see houses going for 3k to buy them and put them back on the market for at least 10k. I also implore PA's to feel some compassion for the solo architects, we are brothers in trade not some bugs to be driven out of business or assimilated into your hive.
Choada
ChodaBoy:
Why are you so worried about this?
If their prices are too low then they will not survive. What part of this don't you understand?
If you believe your own rant above that these people aren't making loads of money then why are you worried about it? If they aren't making money then they won't be able to afford to do this for long and will either stop selling them at that price or stop making them. Either way the problem takes care of itself.
What if they are making a little money? Well, then....YOU can only make a little money. I'm sorry that your mad that you can't make LOTS of money but that is how the free market system works. You have to compete.