Architect Archive
Thread: Renewable Incomes Remove re-deeding buildings, add furniture decay & maybe advanced heavies? =)
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walcyradiant
Mon Apr 18, 2005 4:21 pm
#1
Sorry, it's a bit of a read as I either ramble or oversimplify. Rambling yields the most info tho. =)
1st idea - Redeeding Buildings
Thought about it... if we removed redeeding from structures (not harvesters or factories), then we'd get some kind of renewable income w/o impacting the changes/intentions SOE has had in regards to structures lately.
It makes sense to redeed a harvester/factory since irl those objects are usually modular in design and can be taken down and put back up in other places. Housing tho is usually cheaper to raze and rebuild anew instead tho.
SOE put in the condeming of structures, which prevents anything from going poof, which is nice if you want to prevent people from seeing the populace exiting w/o active people knowing it. But remove redeeding of buildings just effects those that are active and not by much. How often does anyone pickup/replant their houses? Only those using safe houses (jedi) might be concerne about it, but with small houses only costing 10k it's hardly a bother for them.
This could boost the renewable income a little and boost sales of housing which seems on the downside. Main reason I've never bothered selling houses. They're like paintings, no needs bulk of them.
2nd idea - Furniture
Add decay to all furniture. Furniture gets old and worn out, it's only natural. Make it like the lights, resource stats determining age left on item. But it only crumbles if you pick it up after it has expired or make so at condition 0, you can't drop in house anymore. Someone could leave something in place for a LONG time, no worries, just liket he lights. Those redecorating/moving should just buy new stuff. In which case since we're taking something from our customers, lets give them something too. If the furniture had condition stat like armor/clothing/weapons and the age stat just removes condition at some rate, repair kits could be made to 'refurbish' the furniture. It'd lengthen the life a little (repair condition) but afterawhile, it's not worth repairing, just get a new one. If at condition 0, it can't be dropped anymore in a house.
Also give them coloraztion kits. Maybe different kinds to color different types of furniture?
Opportunity for new stuff for customers combined with new renewable income for archies equals good. =)
PS- Any new schematics introduced into the game that aren't limited or at the least not looted (npc sold perhaps), can be new income. But unless the above ideas are implemented and new building/furniture won't become a renewable income, it'll just be a temporary boost to us, and short lived. And I doubt new harvesters will be introduced, but those would at least be a renewable income of sorts. Always more new crafters in the game needing harvesters/factories than there are new players needing a house to hang their hat. =)
Okay, so while rambling I had a 3rd idea -
If we did introduce new harvesters, they should be double the BER at least, but all components, even walls, use stats on resources to make 'advanced' parts, experimenting the BER skywards. These beasts would be costly and hard to make given the number of resources, so efficiency dictacts the standard harvester should still be needed. The resource requirments for new advanced harvesters would help create what i recall from economics class, a high cost of entry, kinda like it's hard getting into AS/WS cause of the high end resources need, gotta collect a lot over time. With current arch anyone can just hop into it w/in a day. Those that have a chance of hurting long time arch businesses only need a nice bank account to get started and buy a fleet of harvesters or a grinding resource stock and churn out some product. Time/money shouldn't be the restraint on our competitor's cost of entry, it should be resources, just like everything else.
Plus new advanced heavies would cost a ton, easily 500k-2M on some servers. It'd be like someone upgrading their fleet from ber10 to ber13, there's a decent price hike but it's something worth it if they're a serious crafter. Same would be true of higher end harvesters. With higher ber harvesters, devs could easily justify any policy to remove/reduce the harvester farming that some see as a plague on the game; I just see harvester farms as the inevitable consequence of the game's mechanics and demands on the professions. =)
Message Edited by walcyradiant on 04-18-2005 04:23 PM
Poldano
Tue Apr 19, 2005 1:50 pm
#2
Walcy,
Check the furniture colorization poll and the profession top 5 list for the status of your #2 notion.
Looking around the forum, I think you will find that the profession does not lack for ideas for improvement, but for execution upon ideas for improvement.
Saego, Wanderhome
Jutewr
Tue Apr 19, 2005 1:53 pm
#3
1. Nonononono. All this would do is make people angry that they have to buy a whole new deed just to move. Maybe if it had been put in in the beginning, but not now when people (like me) are used to being able to move where ever they want to for free. And, as a specific example, what would happen to houses that are misplaced. I am the mayor ofa city and was on the militia of another, and I have had people take up to 4 tries before they place their house in the proper location and direction.
2. I like the furniture decay idea, but not repair kits or color kits. I don't want to make silly little items, I'd rather just make new furniture for the people.
3. Well, I don't make harvestors, so I don't have much of an opinion. But I will tell you that prices will not stay that high, not with all the people who sell for under cost on purpose. There is no way to control the pricing of specific items. What you mightsell for2 mil, another person might sell for 100k.
Kalem_Radiant
Tue Apr 19, 2005 2:55 pm
#4
Walcy, nice ideas
I have been thinking along the same lines.
With the fixed housing idea I think for the first24 hoursa housing deed is placed it should still be redeedable.
Several times while placing a structure in a city, folks find they have faced the structure in the wrong direction or have not placed it in just the right spot.
Furniture suggestions I think are great, as long as the decay is slow. (say equal to 3months real time)
If the decay is too fast, non architects will not support the change and it will never come about.
Rather then a new type of harvester what I would rather see is decay on existing harvesters.
Now before everyone screams bloody murder hear me out.
The decay would be very slow (a standard non exp harvester would last 60 days. A fully harvester fully exp for decay resist would last in excess of 90 days.) and decay would onlyhappen on active harvesters.
Once decayed, a harvester would cease functioning but not be destroyed for 3 weeks or untill the resources in its hoppers have been removed. (Whichever comes first)
This will help to clear out theexcess harvesters littering the landscape and help provide a renewable income for us architects.
For those of you doing cross server lot swaps (I got 90 harvesters in cross server trades myself) this doesnt really kill you.
Theres no reason you can't just plop down new harvesters with your cross server trading partner every 60-90 days as its not that big a inconvenience.
Now for a slightlyradical idea.
I'd like to see the survey branch moved from artisan to scout replaceing the fairly useless trapping branch.
At each tier 4 of the artisan merchant branch a player would gain 2 vendors.
At master artisan you would gain another 2 vendors for a total of 8.
For each novice elite crafting profession you gain an additional vendor and another vendor at elite master level.
By eliminatingthe surveybranch artisans free up 14 skill points which they can apply to either support their artisan skills (think FS) or use towards combat skills needed to take care of their harvesters.
I'm not picking on merchants (master merchant myself) but with recent changes to bazzar,the inability to assign other admins to our vendorsand the fact that most merchants are in fact crafters first it makes more sense to included the merchant skills into the crafter trees.
I'd also like to see a module crafted by Architectsusing parts supplied byDE's that can be added to a structure to give it a 200 items storage similar to a bank deposit. (It would be a terminal placed somewhere in the house)
The module/terminal once installed in a house becomes permanent and increases the monthly maintance of the house.
Also the owner would be able to assign admins (seperate from house) for the storage module/terminal.
This would be handy for guildies to drop off or pick up items for a crafter or just for storage.
Also since its not a vendor there are no issues with the items dropping off sale etc.
I'm sure some of these ideas have been bounced around before but I think its time westarted raising our voices.
Message Edited by Kalem_Radiant on 04-19-2005 05:57 PM
bluejanus
Tue Apr 19, 2005 8:13 pm
#5
Well it's not like we haven't been raising our voices. It's that the devs keep standing us up for the school dance. And they don't even call to say that they're sorry!
Kalem_Radiant wrote:
I'm sure some of these ideas have been bounced around before but I think its time westarted raising our voices.
Dazzydoodle
Tue Apr 19, 2005 8:43 pm
#6
Kalem_Radiant wrote:
Now for a slightlyradical idea.
I'd like to see the survey branch moved from artisan to scout replaceing the fairly useless trapping branch.
At each tier 4 of the artisan merchant branch a player would gain 2 vendors.
At master artisan you would gain another 2 vendors for a total of 8.
For each novice elite crafting profession you gain an additional vendor and another vendor at elite master level.
By eliminatingthe surveybranch artisans free up 14 skill points which they can apply to either support their artisan skills (think FS) or use towards combat skills needed to take care of their harvesters.
But... That means to place the harvestor, someone would need to pick up novice scout. -15 skill points I think.
Which doesn't matter much for me, I'm already novice scout sto that I don't need to buy my own hide. But I wonder how many others would be stuck.
Kalem_Radiant
Wed Apr 20, 2005 7:54 am
#7
Dazzydoodle wrote:
Kalem_Radiant wrote:
Now for a slightlyradical idea.
I'd like to see the survey branch moved from artisan to scout replaceing the fairly useless trapping branch.
At each tier 4 of the artisan merchant branch a player would gain 2 vendors.
At master artisan you would gain another 2 vendors for a total of 8.
For each novice elite crafting profession you gain an additional vendor and another vendor at elite master level.
By eliminatingthe surveybranch artisans free up 14 skill points which they can apply to either support their artisan skills (think FS) or use towards combat skills needed to take care of their harvesters.
But... That means to place the harvestor, someone would need to pick up novice scout. -15 skill points I think.
Which doesn't matter much for me, I'm already novice scout sto that I don't need to buy my own hide. But I wonder how many others would be stuck.
Ahh you would think so but after CURBsurveying & placing harvesters soundslike ajob better left toa char with combat skills.
Think about it, pure crafters wouldnt have their skill points wasted on survey branch and scouts could have another way to earn money by finding resource locations.
After all they are already out running around in the wilds anyway. 
Kalem_Radiant
Wed Apr 20, 2005 8:21 am
#8
bluejanus wrote:
Well it's not like we haven't been raising our voices. It's that the devs keep standing us up for the school dance. And they don't even call to say that they're sorry!
Kalem_Radiant wrote:
I'm sure some of these ideas have been bounced around before but I think its time westarted raising our voices.
Your correct, we have been hollering.
Our problem is there are just not enough Architects for us to get the Dev's attention.
We might try a different approch.
Instead of each crafting profession hollering for their own fixes, what if we gathered all crafting professions together and made a combined list of suggested changes.
Each profession would have to be willing to make some consessions to other professions so while we might not get everything we want we would have something thatbenifits everyone a little.
Almost everytime I see a good suggestion in a crafting forum I see someone post from another profession complaing about the suggestion as it impacts them.
How can we expect the DEVS to listen to us when we can't even agree with each other?
I recall seeing a post about decaya long time ago and the poor poster was blasted by other players who were only thinking about themselves and not the good of the game as a whole.
Sure decay would drive some prices up, but since the DEVs are looking for credit sinks it fits right in and after a slight bump in the prices of some crafted items things would settle back down.
Remember when decay was first turned on for weapons and armor? Remember all the complaining from players. Now it's an accepted part of the game.
If we're all willing to give a little and come up with a list of suggestionsendorsed by every crafting profession and it was forwarded to the DEV's by every crafting corrospondent I'd bet that we would not only get a response but actually get ussome results.
To be honest there has been several times when I have been really bent with Sony not responding or making changes with seeming disreguard to the players wishes.
However if you read throughout the forums its a wonder the DEVs can figure outwewantwith allour opposing posts.
I'm not saying there is only one right way or that we should all think the same, but I do think we should workout what is truly important to each profession and keep in mind how that will impact other professions.
trs1cg11
Wed Apr 20, 2005 8:30 am
#9
Well as with all things that get done around this game, we need to complain until they do something.since for the most part anyone who started as an architect and stayed, has shown that we are not prone to complain .we have infinite patience for the people that play this game(be they 14 year olds or 20 somethings that act like it)and unlike the people pushing to get the CU done, we know how to make people happy. here is where i crush the hopes of many an arch, the devs dont care about people that play now. we are hooked and wont quit whether they do anything or not. so they go forward to attract new players. i hope at some point they give us something new but until then ill keep selling resources hoping one day ill get to use some to make houses or maybe if im really lucky i can build a fountain that will be in the center of someones town.
Jutewr
Wed Apr 20, 2005 5:49 pm
#10
Kalem_Radiant wrote:
Dazzydoodle wrote:
Kalem_Radiant wrote:
Now for a slightlyradical idea.
I'd like to see the survey branch moved from artisan to scout replaceing the fairly useless trapping branch.
At each tier 4 of the artisan merchant branch a player would gain 2 vendors.
At master artisan you would gain another 2 vendors for a total of 8.
For each novice elite crafting profession you gain an additional vendor and another vendor at elite master level.
By eliminatingthe surveybranch artisans free up 14 skill points which they can apply to either support their artisan skills (think FS) or use towards combat skills needed to take care of their harvesters.
But... That means to place the harvestor, someone would need to pick up novice scout. -15 skill points I think.
Which doesn't matter much for me, I'm already novice scout sto that I don't need to buy my own hide. But I wonder how many others would be stuck.
Ahh you would think so but after CURBsurveying & placing harvesters soundslike ajob better left toa char with combat skills.
Think about it, pure crafters wouldnt have their skill points wasted on survey branch and scouts could have another way to earn money by finding resource locations.
After all they are already out running around in the wilds anyway.
No thanks, I don't have the skill points to pick up another novice profession. How many pure scouts use harvestors anyway?
Kalem_Radiant
Thu Apr 21, 2005 8:53 am
#11
Jutewr wrote:
Kalem_Radiant wrote:
Dazzydoodle wrote:
Kalem_Radiant wrote:
Now for a slightlyradical idea.
I'd like to see the survey branch moved from artisan to scout replaceing the fairly useless trapping branch.
At each tier 4 of the artisan merchant branch a player would gain 2 vendors.
At master artisan you would gain another 2 vendors for a total of 8.
For each novice elite crafting profession you gain an additional vendor and another vendor at elite master level.
By eliminatingthe surveybranch artisans free up 14 skill points which they can apply to either support their artisan skills (think FS) or use towards combat skills needed to take care of their harvesters.
But... That means to place the harvestor, someone would need to pick up novice scout. -15 skill points I think.
Which doesn't matter much for me, I'm already novice scout sto that I don't need to buy my own hide. But I wonder how many others would be stuck.
Ahh you would think so but after CURBsurveying & placing harvesters soundslike ajob better left toa char with combat skills.
Think about it, pure crafters wouldnt have their skill points wasted on survey branch and scouts could have another way to earn money by finding resource locations.
After all they are already out running around in the wilds anyway.
No thanks, I don't have the skill points to pick up another novice profession. How many pure scouts use harvestors anyway?
Your sig Miraclaims your MTailor/MArchitect/MMerchant/2223 Politician
Now my crafting char is a Master Artisan, Master Architect, Master Merchant and although I'm close I don't have enough skill points left to master Chef.
So I'm guessing you'renot a master artisan (you got whatsurvey 1?) or your using your alt char to survey for you since the only way to master Merchant/Architect/Tailor would be if you droppedtheSurvey skills because those are the onlyboxes you could drop and not lose your master professions. That works fine for a Chef or Tailor but most other crafting professions like to have master artisan to make some of those required items our master profession needs that can only be made by a Master Artisan. So even if we don't want survey 2-4 we're stuck with it.
I think with my suggestion theres something for all artisans;
You'll see you will pick up 14 skill points in artisan (If you havesurvey 4 because the survey branch is gone)plus if your currently a Master Merchant another 63 points because theMerchant treeno longer exists since it's incorperatedinto the artisan andmaster crafting lines.
This gives you 77 points you can either use to complet mastery of your second master profession and leave you skill points to get combat or scoutsskills your going to need once curb hits. Once theCURB hits if your a pure crafter you won't be allowed to wear armor and you get multiplier damage from any aggro thats a higher combat level then you are. (akaeverything) Sony's suggestion for pure crafters was to wear a PSG, LOL shows you how little theyknow about the game or how little they care about the crafting profession. (For you new folks a PSG currentlyhas NO kinetic protection which is the type of damage almost all creature aggros have)
BTW I'm not against Merchants but since the Devs won't allowus merchants to assign someone else as a vendor admin, and with the global bazzar changes much of the merchant tree is useless. Once you have set up your vendors, dressed them and assigned them their canned greetings you can drop those branches because they are no longer required leaving you with only 2 branches in Merchant unless you really need those last 2 vendors and the 2k extra item limit.
Jutewr
Thu Apr 21, 2005 1:07 pm
#12
Ah, it seems I failed to read past the first line or so of your proposal. I will politely state that I would rather have the merchant profession improved than destroyed, and I'll add to what I said about moving surveying by saying that I have no desire to pick up scout either.
*edited because I can't type*
Message Edited by Jutewr on 04-21-2005 03:07 PM
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