Architect Archive

I'm not selling mine. I didn't have huge quantites of the steel I needed (I've been using "good enough" carbonite for a while now, have 600k or so of that), so my first priority will be upgrading my own harvesters. *If* I have any leftovers, I'll put one up on my vendor as a showpiece (along with the 44.45 stations I made) at a price too outrageous for anyone to buy. The rest will go to friends at the same rate I sell them discounted 13BERs.

If I were going to sell them to the general public, I'd start at 500k and go up from there. Barring a flurry of perfect resources or another change to experimentation, we'll never see these again.

MC

I think that there will be a combination of "bragging rights" and "poor math ability" that may drive the prices on these up well beyond what makes sense economically. Look at the prices for weapons that do 7% more damage out there.

However, if you roll the numbers and think from a business perspective, these clearly justify some premium but not on the order that some people are talking about.

A BER14 will pump up about 1K more in resources per day than a BER13 (depends on the concentration of course), with exactly the same operating costs. If a miner is selling at 3 cpu, that's an extra pure profit of 3K per day. So if I charge a 90K premium over my price for a BER13, it will take 30 days for the miner to break even on that, after which they get to pocket that 3K a day. In general, I don't see a lot of people thinking and planning much beyond that time scale, so I don't think that people will go for a 6 month breakeven price.

So, ignoring the bragging rights people and focusing just on the "business" minded folks, my gut says that a 50-100K premium is the right ballpark. I think that a 10K premium is *way* too low - it has a 3-4 day breakeven point - you'll sell them all in a second to someone and you'll have very little left for your scrambling yesterday. I think that a 200-300K premium is too high, but again, there are idiots out there who will buy anything.

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ZenDragonMLS wrote:
I think that there will be a combination of "bragging rights" and "poor math ability" that may drive the prices on these up well beyond what makes sense economically. Look at the prices for weapons that do 7% more damage out there.

However, if you roll the numbers and think from a business perspective, these clearly justify some premium but not on the order that some people are talking about.

A BER14 will pump up about 1K more in resources per day than a BER13 (depends on the concentration of course), with exactly the same operating costs. If a miner is selling at 3 cpu, that's an extra pure profit of 3K per day. So if I charge a 90K premium over my price for a BER13, it will take 30 days for the miner to break even on that, after which they get to pocket that 3K a day. In general, I don't see a lot of people thinking and planning much beyond that time scale, so I don't think that people will go for a 6 month breakeven price.

So, ignoring the bragging rights people and focusing just on the "business" minded folks, my gut says that a 50-100K premium is the right ballpark. I think that a 10K premium is *way* too low - it has a 3-4 day breakeven point - you'll sell them all in a second to someone and you'll have very little left for your scrambling yesterday. I think that a 200-300K premium is too high, but again, there are idiots out there who will buy anything.

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Again with the 'bad math' analogies. If you are top level armorsmith/weaponsmith and you are mining a resource that may not come again for a LONG time then you have to figure more than 3 cpu (that's a generic price does not fit all, you don't buy Mercedes and Yugos by the pound do you?). For example, we have a resource called Dur, used for kinetic layers for both Ubese and Composite armor, people mined as much of that as they could get harvs on and bought up to their limit after that. That was when it was current. After that, the price has gone up weekly, we are talking 80-100cpu range now. So figure that out. I don't know about you but whenever something exceptional spawns I have several people come to me saying hey can I buy some BER13's and when they do they usually are like ok I'll take 10, oh yeah how much are they so I can bring enough money. Hmm what does that say.

P.S. Resource extraction formulas while supposedly linear, are actually non-linear in practice, with higher BER ratings providing even greater results than they should. Want proof put some BER10's on 10%, 20%, 50%, 80%, 90%, especially that 10% let me know how that works. I've done it and well there is a problem somewhere in the code.

Padre

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Droidmaster100 wrote:

Ok now that we have them in the game I would like to know what the general price will be. I am on Bria and would like to get a feel as to keep in line with the pricing. Thanks for your time in advance.

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They are only worth a significant amount more to people with lot issues. If you have people who will place harvesters for you (guild mates, friends etc.) then it really isnt' worth investing a ton of credits in only minimally higher BER harvesters.

At present, I'm charging 175k for BER-13 chem/flora, 185k for BER-13 mineral, and 90k for BER-13 moisture. These prices reflect the differing costs of production.

I'll probably increase prices by about 20k per unit: 195k, 205k, and 110k. This keeps the price increase pretty much in line with the increase in extraction rate.

But, that's what my initial price will be... We'll see how sales are.

At present, I have materials and components(except for walls) for somewhere between 750 and 1000 heavies of various sorts. I'm wanting to craft through these relatively quickly because the logistics are nightmarish - I'm going to be jugggling 6 SSSM schematics, 2 GT schematics, 1 schematic for each extraction unit (pump, heavy harvest, ore), 4 schematics for heavy mineral, 2 schematics for heavy flora, 1 each for chem and moisture, PLUS a different set of schematics (mostly not-yet-made) for my other products. Yikes!

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PadreBook wrote:

Again with the 'bad math' analogies. If you are top level armorsmith/weaponsmith and you are mining a resource that may not come again for a LONG time then you have to figure more than 3 cpu (that's a generic price does not fit all, you don't buy Mercedes and Yugos by the pound do you?). P.S. Resource extraction formulas while supposedly linear, are actually non-linear in practice, with higher BER ratings providing even greater results than they should. Want proof put some BER10's on 10%, 20%, 50%, 80%, 90%, especially that 10% let me know how that works.

Padre

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I don't disagree with you on who might be willing to pay more. There is the business justification that you can make on a "steady state" model. There is another one based on prepping for a possible upside. A BER13 heavy on 70% on a 7 day spawn gives 91K, whereas the BER14 will give 98K. If someone thinks that they will get an opportunity to jump on a spawn where the resource is worth 20+ cpu on the market, then clearly that one spawn will justify a higher premium. There is an auction up for 2 BER14's on the Wanderhome trade forum, so we'll see who bites and how hard.

With regards to the non-linear aspects, I haven't seen any numbers on this one way or another. The sample test method that you propose doesn't vary the BER at all - it varies the concentration. An easy test would be a BER1 and BER4 harvester on a high percentage spot. One thing about harvester rate tests that I've noticed is that if your test includes a server reset period then the results get all borked up, presumably since "world time" is frozen during that period and the length of that period is variable.

Chilastra: Mikka R'zrPoint, Spy (Master Ranger/Master Pistoleer)
Chilastra: Zalle RazorPoint, Trader:Engineer (Master Architect, Master DE, Master Shipwright) - vendors just north of Theed at -3858 6181
Test Center: Rikka R'zrPoint, Master Artisan, Master Architect - showroom just south of Theed at -5370, 3139

I charge 125 K for BER 14 fusionsand100 K for any BER 13 heavies.

Antmin Adastar, Gorath

Well, IF I can end up scraping together enough to mass-produce these from the schems I made, then I might sell some. Otherwise, they are far to rare and valueable to sell, in my opinion.

Look at older higher rate fusions. They were available for a great deal longer than 1 day, and can go for rediculous amounts. In comparison, a BER 15 Fusion can fetch 350K+ on Ahazi.

Basically my standing on these is that if anyone sells them, they're selling them for too little.

You are correct about that varying the concentration and not testing the BER, I use that as a more ready example for people to try. As you can put a cheap ber10 on a 10% and a 1000 meters away (or the like) put it on a 90% (or whatever).

My pricing is all about a limited market and why shouldn't be? There is only a limited supply of these.

Padre

I started my sells at 350k.. I am placing one in the main guild hall as a item to keep I think that one day it will be possible to get them again