Architect Archive

Thread: Solve the Storage issue in One Publish

IntoTheGarbage
Fri Mar 26, 2004 12:47 pm
#1


The House storage capacity per lot is famously inconsistent. While it is 75 items per lot for small and medium houses, for large houses and guild halls it is 250.


The devs have said this is due to a database issue. That can only mean that the existing storage limits are too high, and they are unwilling to remove the limitations on large houses. While players can get around this limitation by building multiple small and/or medium houses, those how do spend their lot points on a large house get fewer items, thus reducing the number of items in the game.


There is a solution here. In one publish, nerf house and guild hall storage capacity to a consistent 30 items per lot. (or some similar number) At the same time bring in a series of warehouses. Large medium and small, with a storage capacity of 75 items per lot. The warehouses will be installations, not houses, so you cannot enter them.


This has short and long term advantages. First of all it reduces the total number of items allowed in the game for most players. At the same time it leaves players ample space to decorate their houses, while giving crafters a better way to store their items with no loss of storage capacity.


I am a little shaky on the long term benefit but here goes: The warehouses should create an opportunity for the devs to reduce the number of items in the game. They could do this by changing the code on the warehouses so that an item that is stored in the warehouse is destroyed when it is stored, and re-created when it is removed. Thus reducing the total number of items in the game at any one time. This would mean that items in a warehouse should not decay, which they shouldn’t do anyways.




___________________________________

Ok, just for the record, my original name was: IntoTheGarbageChuteFlyboy. However the names have since been shortened and my name went from really cool to really confusing.

Thank you for your patience.
lees
Fri Mar 26, 2004 2:00 pm
#2

Put that in my sig file it rocks




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YExcite'Y
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Andymantium
Fri Mar 26, 2004 2:34 pm
#3

I'm open to a lot of ideas, but whatever they might be, I don't really agree with the players having to adjust their gaming experience because the SOE database servers can't handle the volume, especially when we're paying them a monthly fee.



K

Pawlin
Fri Mar 26, 2004 3:21 pm
#4






Andymantium wrote:

I'm open to a lot of ideas, but whatever they might be, I don't really agree with the players having to adjust their gaming experience because the SOE database servers can't handle the volume, especially when we're paying them a monthly fee.







Agreed. When they say that their database can't handle it, that isn't an excuse its a failure.





Pawlin Construction of Kettemoor.
Harvesters and Crafting stations - Triad Coronet Mall just outside Coronet (-177 -5490)
Architect, House, Furniture, Harvester FAQ

Oprolan the Wookiee of Sunrunner. Cheap resources W. Daeric Talus (-639 -3058)
"Worst FF ever *thumbsdown*" -- Pawlin fan club
"I am not going to win Miss Congeniality again this year in the Senate." -- John McCain


** Please refer to Elyssa's answer
Neilla
Fri Mar 26, 2004 5:33 pm
#5

I agree 100%. Raising resource limits to 1 million and letting all crates go up to 1000 units would reduce by footprint in the database by a factor of about 10.



-------------------------------------------------
Neilla Bastune, Mayor of Baishi
Master Architect and CEO of Baishi Heavy Industries
ZenDragonMLS
Fri Mar 26, 2004 5:48 pm
#6



Neilla wrote:
I agree 100%. Raising resource limits to 1 million and letting all crates go up to 1000 units would reduce by footprint in the database by a factor of about 10.




BTW - I think that doing these would help a lot with the database issues and would increase player convenience. However, I don't think it would be a factor of 10X. Obviously the devs could run some queries to give a better number, and I think it is substantial, but not 10X.

When I look at my "resource stock vendor", I see 19 stacks of some steel. That would go down to 2 1M stacks, so almost a 10X reduction. But there are 3 stacks of this iron, which would go to 1 stack, so a 3X improvement. When I look in my inventory I see mostly "unique" items, so that doesn't give an reduction. Similarly for my showroom - probably no reduction in the 125 items that are there.



Chilastra: Mikka R'zrPoint, Spy (Master Ranger/Master Pistoleer)
Chilastra: Zalle RazorPoint, Trader:Engineer (Master Architect, Master DE, Master Shipwright) - vendors just north of Theed at -3858 6181
Test Center: Rikka R'zrPoint, Master Artisan, Master Architect - showroom just south of Theed at -5370, 3139

MadACR
Sat Mar 27, 2004 12:30 am
#7

why have a cap limit on resource containers? it makes no sense DB wise. however 1 mil would help allot of architects reduce their foot print, and quite a few other artisians as well. I bet a few medics would have a reduced foot print too. I think the amount is justifiable to.


The game also needs some means of dumping like materials into one bin at a cost of quality. Maybe make "mineral" containers for all the small amounts of metal that never gets used. It would be great for practice mode.


I agree with crates 100%. make the number in a crate 1000, or more if schematic numbers raised in the future.


Morwen
Sat Mar 27, 2004 1:08 am
#8


Dumb idea. Warehouse or not, as long as the item exists individually it requires space in the database. The database does need to get smaller. There are two ways to do this, make more efficient use of each database record or remove objects from the game.


1. Increase resource stacks to a maximum capacity of 1,000,000 units.
2. Increase crate capacity for any object to a maximum of 1000.


This will do both

Message Edited by Morwen on 03-26-2004 03:09 PM

Softail
Sat Mar 27, 2004 1:12 am
#9

I like you'r idea about the warehouse's, I feel that a warehouse should take up 1 lot like any other installation's but that they should hold the same amount as a large house. The reason I say that is there are some people in the game that run 2 account's and have both character's as a crafting class or might have 1 character do 2 crafting classes and the other might be a combat/crafting class.


Snails/Softail


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Snails
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Softail
4/0/0/4 TK, 0/0/4/0 Commando, 0/1/3/0/ Smuggler, 0/0/2/4 Bounty Hunter
Pawlin
Sat Mar 27, 2004 1:37 am
#10






IntoTheGarbage wrote:


...There is a solution here. In one publish, nerf house and guild hall storage capacity to a consistent 30 items per lot. (or some similar number) ...


This would be a giant hassle. Everyone would scream their heads off. I'd probably scream myself. I'd go from1 medium house with 150 capacity to 1 medium house with 60 capacity. I'd have to useanother lot and buy another building to getthe capacity I've got now. Tons of people are in the same boat as me.


...


I am a little shaky on the long term benefit but here goes: The warehouses should create an opportunity for the devs to reduce the number of items in the game. They could do this by changing the code on the warehouses so that an item that is stored in the warehouse is destroyed when it is stored, and re-created when it is removed. ...


If the item is "destroyed" when it is stored then how will they keep track of what you had in the warehouse in order to recreate it? They'd have to have a record of the items stats in order to recreate it. Thats what they store in the database right now. I see no difference in this proposal and the current system.










Pawlin Construction of Kettemoor.
Harvesters and Crafting stations - Triad Coronet Mall just outside Coronet (-177 -5490)
Architect, House, Furniture, Harvester FAQ

Oprolan the Wookiee of Sunrunner. Cheap resources W. Daeric Talus (-639 -3058)
"Worst FF ever *thumbsdown*" -- Pawlin fan club
"I am not going to win Miss Congeniality again this year in the Senate." -- John McCain


** Please refer to Elyssa's answer
ZenDragonMLS
Sat Mar 27, 2004 1:48 am
#11

It's not clear that this solves anything.

I currently have a medium house as a showroom / workshop. I actually display a lot of lights and furniture, plus I have crafting stations, etc. I don't keep many resources there at all. If the item count on that went down, my whole ability to have a "showroom" would go out the window.

With regards to the "warehouse" and your comment about "destroying" objects I am a little confused as to why this would save anything in terms of database records. If you have 10 things in your inventory, then there are 10 database records that exist for those things. If you transfer them to a warehouse, those 10 database records still have to exist - the only thing that changes is the "container" that they are assigned to. It is *possible* to get some database savings by "crating" the items you put into the warehouse. That is, if you had 10 identical things in your inventory (chairs, for example), and dumped them into the warehouse, the warehouse could have a record for "chair" and then add a quantity (which is essentially what a "crate" is). So in that case it would only end up with 1 record instead of 10. But since they don't currentl "stack" objects like they do resources, that would be new code to write.

Again, changing max crate size to 1000 and max resource stack size to 1M would drop the number of objects in the game substantially.



Chilastra: Mikka R'zrPoint, Spy (Master Ranger/Master Pistoleer)
Chilastra: Zalle RazorPoint, Trader:Engineer (Master Architect, Master DE, Master Shipwright) - vendors just north of Theed at -3858 6181
Test Center: Rikka R'zrPoint, Master Artisan, Master Architect - showroom just south of Theed at -5370, 3139

lees
Sat Mar 27, 2004 1:58 am
#12

1. Increase resource stacks to a maximum capacity of 1,000,000 units.
2. Increase crate capacity for any object to a maximum of 1000.


hell yes i like this.




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YExcite'Y
"Ops Comms, I said Ops Comms damnit!"
-Rebel Force Recon-

[-Punk|-|-Surfer-]
WhiteRose555
Sat Mar 27, 2004 4:40 am
#13

Let me start off by saying I am a Database Administrator in the real world and deal with database issues and performace for a living.


Biggest Cop Out: The database is too big!


So why not do things to reduce the database with out making it the players problem that your design does not scale? When did the database become our problem and that we should be punished for it? I pay my monthly fee every month, on several accounts actually. Where that money going?


There are tons of technical solutions for handling large databases.

1) Add bigger better servers.

2) Break up your databases into more databases and host them on more servers.



There is no one game server cluster that stores more than the IRS or Mc Donald's Sales Databases.


When the last time you heard, "You do not have to pay taxes this year, we can not store it?" Or "I am sorry you can not order a Big Mac our sales database is to large to record your sale?"


I love playing this game and I have multiple accounts with mostly crafting professions.


IMHO These are the easiest things to change to get the quickest return on database performance as wel as server performance.


1) Increase stack and crate sizes - One record with a quanity of 25 will always be less that 25 individual rows in a database.


2) Increase storage limits or remove them. Why are they really there? Simple to get people to buy more accounts. How do people get around the limits. a) Buy more accounts b) Sever swapping and Lot Trading c) Place 3 med instead of a large house. When you do method c it just add the lag issue and places more structures on the landscape.


3) Remove canceled accout'sstructures,harvsters and items. (Shudders pretty sure some of hisharvesters would be gone) Why does SWG not remove these items?..Simple it is easier to get some one who let there account lapse to renew if they do not have to start over. They are not paying or playing any more, why is my game expereince being impacted by them (ie database too big).


4) Remove all illegal vendors - This is a hot spot on the merchant forums. But taking the merchant line, placing vendors dropping all the skills increase the number of vendors and items sold. This is an exploit why is it allowed to go on? I drop pistoler I do not get to keep my dx2 certification or medic I can not use stims anymore. Simple math says less vendors lessitems stocked, craftedand sold. You can argue that they would just have there freind merchant sell them for them. Some of that would happen and would actually be a good thing for the merchant profession. But anyone who manges a large number of vendors with high item counts can tell you there is such thing as critical mass. Who want to spend all there game time putting 5000 items back up because someone else doesn't want to invest the skill points or time?


Annon

Chilastra
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