Architect Archive

Ok the big issues (just read the last few million posts) seem to be over two sides...

1. The ones who wish to make a decent living off of selling houses (and other comparable structures).

2. The ones who want xp or who just wish to craft faster therefor selling their products cheaper.

The problem (as many are seeing) is that the market for these products is going down. Why? My economics teacher in college said that enonomy runs on one basic concept: Supply and demand.

When this game started, artisanship was not a 'side class'. It was a major profession (as they all are) that MANY people became interested in. This is great, you can be whatever you want in SWG. The problem is that a large percent (maybe over 25% which IS large considering how many different professions there are) went architect and now the supply us up up UP but with the game being so new, the demand is still down down down. This is bad for ANY economy. Therefore (as many are noticing) you need to drop prices (if you have any hope of selling your product). I'm not telling you what to do just listing how things are right now.

Now what is the root of this problem? The people who don't care about money and just want xp? The people who are working too fast? No. I can explain two major factors that are causing econmy to break.

1. INDIVDUAL DOESNT MATTER! - Thats right, you make a house and ya know what? You may have spent 2 hours (guessing) putting that thing together but once it hits the market its the same as the house next to it that some PA made in 5 min through combine effort. Not to count the fact that PA probably has over 20 of them sitting right along side yours as well. Are PA's to blame for this? Maybe but there is a bigger factor. Why did the PA make 20 houses. Because they like to? Because they were hoping to turn a profit? (not likely) Nope its because of Grinding. (more on this in a sec).

2. TOO LITTLE XP FOR ARCHITECT! - What? Did i just say too LITTLE xp? After grinding myself for over 3 days with no sleep and almost forgetting to eat, i complain about too LITTLE xp needed for Architect? Yup. and here is why. Architect is a (end result) very fun profession. Who wouldn't even in real life to make their own house or make their own furniture or start up a factory to make lots of goodies. Its definitely an enriching experience. So much so that we get back to one of my earlier points where too many people are architects. It fits the whole supply and demand model that right now there are too many suppliers (architects) for the number of buyers (new players). Should this be controlled through players though or artificially through xp? I would say xp because as we can see, players cannot sort this out on their own (we certainly aren't getting anywhere with the problem when one of the threads suggests we should put bounties on the 'undersellers'). Besides, you try convicing a newly told architect (such as myself) that he shouldn't be an architect cuz there are too many right now. Increase the xp and you will drasticallly decrease the number of architects on server. Since the engineer tree is also for weaponsmith and armorsmith (which i can't comment on) this xp requirement boost should be directly pumped into novice architect requirements.

Ok now there is one overall problem though that will cinch this all up and make it all work. Grinding. Why do we have grinding? Is grinding fun? How many of you loved (since most of you are architects) going through over 825 (i did the math at one point) weapon modules just to get enough general crafting xp to hit architect? I know I know, "if you think thats too much xp then what was the previous arguement about". Bear with me, I am getting to my point. The reason grinding works (and is needed) is because you need an inordinate amount of xp and only have very small simple objects to make to get this xp, so you mass produce it till you have enough. Now go back to that sentence and notice how i said "simple objects". Anyone notice how simple the most expensive generic craftin xp items are? I need any one metal and any one chemical en mass. But what if it wasn't like that. What if, instead, they artificially (again) added a delay on hitting architect by controlling how you would do it. Example:

Say you need 50,000 xp for novice artisan (instead of the current 33k which is insane enough). I believe i calculated that you would need over 500 crafting tools to get that far (65xp per tool if you use your own, but try finding the resources for em all). So obviously that would be an enormous amount of grinding right? Wait... but what if, lvl 4 engineering gave you the schematic to a simple structure (such as shed of sorts). But when i said simple, i only meant in looks. In cost it would be rediculous, requiring 200 units of X material and 300 units of Y material (all from moderately to very specific in the resource type) to make a "wood wall". Then you needed to make a steel roof which requires other (fairly specific) resources. Etc etc etc. Making the shed would be quite a task but it wouldn't be grinding. You would simply have many multiple steps including getting resources that may not be available on your planet (you may have to barter or travel).

The effort of grinding would instead be translated over to effort of craftsmanship (with different items and such) so that its not boring nor is it tedious at all. Heck it might even be interesting. It probably won't change the status of the PA's (they shall find a way to get what they need) but it will remove grinding and clear up the market. But what about xp? Surely one item that is THAT complicated won't give you much xp and besides, you can't grind it either (since its complicated) so what do you do? Well what if I told you it DID give a lot of xp. something like 10k or more?"ABSURD!" I'm sure you would say. But if the effort required to build this one shed was the same effort as grinding but spread over multiple tasks, would it really be any different? I don't think it would (except again, more interesting. Also, this gives you more time/effort to put into actually working HARD on your item so that people will be more interested in the quality of your item than anything else. Finally, the effort required to do this (such as maybe going to different planets) will weed out those who are only mulling over becoming and architect and let the cream of the crop ascend.

So to sum up, biggest problem is supply and demand. We are decreasing the supply (but removing some architects and by making things worth more/cost more to make) and the demand should rise soon which will make architects highly praised (especially when most of the work is ACTUAL work and not grinding). This will fix the economy and make everyone happy (I would think).

I have to confess myself, i ruined the economy on Gorath/Talus the other day when i grinded over 300 weapon powerups and put em on the market for 1 cred. How does that effect the value of low level weapon powerups and those trying to make money off it? My big point in this post was that if weapon powerups required more ACTUAL effort to make, it would remove grinding and make each one worth more (both in xp and credit value). Also i would be more inclined to experiment on a single or a dozen weapon powerups (therefore making them usefull and generating an actual market for them) rather than the 300+ i spit out without thinking.

Think about it....

Dragoth Ardule

Talus/Gorath Server

Novice Architect/Squad Leader

I agree with some of what you have said. I have made Master Architect though I didn't use any of the exploits or really grind either. I started out making couplers that I experimented on, I then moved on to Bone Armor and I sold everything I made. The couplers I sold for 50 credits a piece and the bone armor at the time i was getting 1k per piece adn 1.5 - 2k for the larger pieces. Once I was an atrchitect I really didn't grind everything that I made I have sold, I paid the maintenane and powered my machines and I have achieved master Architect without the help of a Factory as well. I have since built a Factory because I need it for the PA halls, but I don't think that I grinded that much. The only thing I have done is played way to much of this game.

I do think that the XP may be to low. All you have to do is make 8 factories and that will give you enough XP for all of the level 2's for Architect. I enjoy this game, though I will probably change my profession after I am finished with the Tuskens Bane project that is going on in Chilastra. Check out the thread.

Potnik

I think they "tried" to make the class a little more daunting by giving it the highest XP requirements of any crafting class, but I think it wouldn't be bad if they doubled it.

I've moved up fairly well, I'm up to Buildings II and Installations I. I know plenty of people are WELL past me, and plenty are WELL behind me. I think I agree with you in that the more difficult they make it, the less people will stick it out. I know the 55,000 GC XP killed a few of my friends off early on, but more of that would be better, I agree.

If others agree, maybe they will change it? Realize the other key element. Make the individual projets/items more daunting so that each one is worth the 1,000's that we craft, therefor removing grinding and making each item you build a quest in itself. Sounds likeway to hook players to me (hint hint).

"Yes, in order to build the gold plated PA Hall you must travel to dathomir. Our only supply of gold gilding supplies is being held by those blasted witches."

"You want to make a factory eh? Well you need some duracrete from Corellia industries. What do you mean you live on tattoine? Well you better get going then i guess!"

I don't know.. I think I like the way it's set up right now. The market will correct itself over time. As for the grind, yeah it's a trek to get from Artisan to any of the higher ones, but you should expect to pay your dues. And as someone pointed out, you're not required to build houses.. factories and the like can get you the skill you need faster, and aren't going as cheap right now (supply&demand) as small houses.

I've made Buildings I and Installations I. I'm close to Installations II now, which will mean medium harvesters.

On Corellia, and not knowing about the power/maintenance exploits, I had about 30 harvesters and 9 wind harvesters running with a few friends, scattered all over the place, to help get me up to and into Architect. We played for a four-day weekend pretty much non-stop at a LAN party, and to tell you the truth.. it was somewhat a waste. I was never really giving the machines time to harvest.

We've relocated to Naboo, out in the mountains. I'm still setting my friends up with their houses, harvesters, and crafting station in return for maintenance money (and eventually a slot or two for medium ore harvesters). However, at the moment I am sitting on a lovely hill with about 44% in some low grade ore, and 55% in some kind of steel. I have 8 harvesters grabbing ore, and 1 on steel. I have an abundance of wind power left over from Corellia, but we've found some nice spots to harvest wind later. During the work week, when I probably get 2 hours to play a night with the other things I have going on in life, I'm SET.

It might cost me 9k to load up all of my harvesters for a day or more. That's all. And I pull 9000 ore and 1500 steel. That's a few houses. Hell, if I sold two at 10k and gave one to a friend for free each night, I'd be making a profit.

The system works, it's just getting settled out.

I really like the idea of big projects that take as long as a whole bunch of power-ups, and give about the same amount of XP. Even if it was something you couldn't sell (making it still grinding), it wouldn't FEEL like grinding. That's something I could really get into.

I do like the large projects/achitect quests idea. That is if the xp reward is comparable to the xp one would

recieve during similar time grinding.

Ialso think supply and demand will work out the economy anyway as player bases mature. Right now there

are too many people playing Architects so the prices for thier goods is way down. Many of these architects will move on to other professions since they obviously are not getting rich as an architect. It remains to be seen how it works out tho. Perhaps the grinding willslow down also as more people cap out the profession.

What is needed is a super rich architect willing to buy out the way underpriced items and put them back

on the market at a more reasonable price Hmm perhaps some developer intervention?. naaa thats a communist idea. hehe

It will be very interesting to see how the economy evolves no doubt

WillHead

OUT

So is that a change everyone is interested in? Substitute grinding for longer imporant tanks/architect quests?

I think the economy is young, and the player base is small from what I think it will become. With the introduction of player cities, the architect profession may change alot. And people create new characters... with new characters comes new needs. I like the 1 character per server rule... it may save us. People that come to our server to create a new character will need a new house... new furniture. I think we will eventually become more in demand... and our prices will rise... I guess all I'm saying is give it time, and have fun. So what if you dont make alot of money. I think the struggle makes it fun... and a little more realistic. It isn't easy. And if you cant sell anything... become a hybrid to add something different to your character. I am a smuggler as well as an architect. I can obtain and sell spice... which I can sell for a good sum. Just have fun with it, and tough it out. This is the rough time.... I played EQ when it first started... And they were able to smooth out all the problems in time. SWG will be the same. Things will work out. Im going to stick it out, and have fun with it. If your even on the Naritus server, look for Aridan Fir'emar... I am currently trying to get a group of roleplayers together to create a small town on Corellia. This is why I became an architect.. so I could be mayor of a town. Find your calling friends I know I have. Take care all. And to all of you who complain, stop. Try a new profession if its that bad. What is the purpose of complaining if your just going to keep playing the same profession after. Take care all... sorry for the ramble.

Aridan Fir'emar

Human Smuggler, Engineer, Novice Architect, and Avid Roleplayer (and loving every minute of it all)

"If you are flammable and have two legs... you are never blocking a fire exit" -Mitch Hedburg