Architect Archive
Thread: Test Center Update and Harvesters
Ygu
I think you miss the point.
I am only 2/0/4/3 .. and NONE of the harvesters I have made have experimentation. So based on this the harvesters for ALL my friends and ALL of the people that bought one off me will have harvesters that can only hold 10 - 20% of what they do now. This means that the 10K to 1 million creds they spent to buy their harvesters will have to be dumped IF they want to go back to full capacity harvesters, because they will have to buy new ones.
Yeah this is a great idea to keep Architects getting money, but from a clients point of view, what they have is junk, so they now need to buy a good quality one.. how much is that gonna cost ? and who is going to want to buy a harvester that they have to check the hopper on EVERY day ?
If they had said.. all existing go to 70% of current, and GOOD experimentation will take it to 150% of current then itmight be ok, but they don't appear to be doing that, instead it appears that all current will go to 10% of current, i.e. useless to most people.
Looks like I will give Architect up sooner rather than later 
Gruntbacca
When this patch does go into effect, we have better get all of our experimention points or hell is going to be raised 
Scortch wrote:
It would be awesome if we could get everyone to band together like this and go on strike.
Unfortunately, you will always have those brown nosing fanboys
Us fanboys tend to be pretty individualistic. We don't go in much for the whole "labor union" mentality.
We pretty much appreciate a good thing when we see it, and since we ourselves have actually done great things in our lives, and come up short a time or two, we're a bit more understanding than others.
Not much patience for whining and crying among fanboys, we know how little it accomplishes. And we know who the credit belongs to in life....the doers, not the critics.
Betatoxin wrote:
glibdud look at your experimentation on a medium or large mineral next time, do you see an efficiency mod? IIRC most extractors have no efficiency mod at all. Not to mention schematics where the efficiency mod is at 0%. There are a couple exceptions like power I think.
Ok, you lost me... as far as I can remember, no harvesters have had an efficiency modifier. What are you getting at?
The bigger question is why the hopper change. Reducing hopper size will not reduce resource collection one bit. People will still make the same amount of resources, they will just have a lot more tedium. This change just makes no sense from a resource reduction POV. It might make a new profession (extractor caretaker) but it will not reduce resource amounts.
*shrug* I really don't know where the suggestion that it's meant to reduce resource supply came from, but as far as I know, no devs have spoken up on this issue, so we just have no idea. I tend to agree with you, inthatI don't think this will have a huge impact on resource supply. The devs aren't dumb... I'm sure they have a reason. I just wish they'd communicate it to us, and until they doI wish people would stop assuming that the reason has something to do with screwing us over needlessly.
- Grandfather all extractors in at their current rates. CH who had them did not loose their medium armor pets we should not loose our extractors although we can get slightly better ones.
- Allow new extractors to be within 20-30% of the stated max
- Allow a variation of 20-50% on new storage sizes but do not reduce current storage capacity to less than 50% of current to existing extractors.
- Increase architect experimentation to a full 100 points before you make any changes
- Ensure all schematics have efficiency and storage modifiers and they actually work
Agreed on all counts, except I'm not entirely sure what you mean by "Allow new extractors to be within 20-30% of the stated max."
Why is it that so many simply can not see a nerf when it hit's them over the head?
Anything that is made less effective, simply because of developer changes is a NERF, plain and simple.
For all who do not understand why so many of us take exception to being NERFED, it's fairly simple, we developed our playing styles, and strategies for the rules that were in place, and no doubt spent countless hours getting our charectors the way that we wanted them. When we find out that a change is put into place, that was NEVER MENTIONED while we spent all those hours, we feel rightfully cheated out of knowledge we should have been told, so we could have made appropriate decisions (perhaps even the decision to quit the game).
As to the development team now deciding that the amount of resources being harvested in the game is too high, I'm sorry, but I truly can't chalk that one up to anything but lack of foresight and stupidity. If I had been calculating the maximum that I wanted to be harvested, I would have gone with a sum calculated against every player using 5 heavy's at a minimum. The only reason I wouldn't have put the number even higher, is some of those lots would have to be used for power generation, and most people also would want houseing. Sure, not every player in the game, will want to be a miner, but you can bet that over time, those extra lots will get loaned out to those that do. This is the sort of planning that should have been done long before even the coding went in to an alpha to allow harvesting, let alone after the game is launched.
As a player of more than a few MMO games, I'm getting more than a little bit tired of Developers that can't seem to see past thier noses and then have to constantly nerf after a game is launched, or a skill added. What ever happened to the whole idea of planning for the "worst/best case scenario" and then setting the limits according to those results?
/me shakes head and wonders off for another cup of coffee...
Vorgus on Bria
The numbers I saw on the Test Center forum say quite the opposite. 70% experimented Medium harvestors were holding a little over 8K of materials. The numbers were extrapolated out to a MAX theoretical 100% medium harvestor at 10K capacity. I call that a drastic cut.
Ygu wrote:
Look, as far as I understand, they didn't reduce the potential size of the hoppers. A lot of people are assuming that hopper sizes have been cut drastically. That is not the case. It just means that in the future, architects must experiment and use good materials in order to get the same maxed hopper sizes we had before.
It's a pain, but there's not going to be a market for pre-nerf harvesters... the same harvesters will still be made! It just takes more effort now, but they're still there! And with the new extraction rates, some will be even better than the pre-nerfs.
It isn't a bad idea, it's a bad implimentation.
In it's current form it is a massive NERF on every crafter in the game and it is more of a NERF on the Architect than a boon. Although we are the creators of harvesters that can be made with some options to make them more effective we are also the most tied and dependent on them due to our god aweful material requirements. After we upgrade all our nerfed harvesters we'll have massive demand to meet while we bust our tails harder than ever to keep our own harvesters humming.
The range between not experimented and experimented should not be large and shouldn't be far from what the current levels are. You should also be able to make harvester better than they are now with the effort and from what I'm seeing no matter how much effort you put into it the harvester is inferior in some respect to what we have. This is where it is nothing better than a NERF disguised as a fix.
Unexperimented with average materials the harvester could be at 75% of the storage and efficiency that they are now. With good materials and successfull experimentation you should be able to get it up to 125% If you experiment both attributes with good materials you should have a reasonable chance of making a harvester of equal quality as they exist presently.
Devs, this is unsatisfactory and had better not go into production in its current form.
Fidg'Ter
PS: MAYBE storage space is a bit larger than it should be at this time. It should work out that an unexperiemented harvester on a maxium yield spot would need to be checked every 2 days and a fully experimented on would need to be checked every 4 days. (Just my Opinion)
I want experimentation too, but not at this expense.
This new thing would drop amount of resources non crafting players have, but would make it harder on us too.
Gregmond wrote:Ygu
I think you miss the point.
No, I don't think I missed the point. I support grandfathering in pre-nerf harvesters.
Vorgus:
I think even most of the "fanboys" on this forum would agree that the devs should have given us more notification about the state of the game, so people wouldn't be caught with the pants down when the change hits. But I still think that the change should go forward. Sure, it's a "nerf"... it makes something less effective. But I also see it as a "fix"... it obviously wasn't intended to work this way, and the game is definitely better with this feature in.
fsuchan:
I've been getting conflicting information. But if you're right, then that is indeed a drastic cut. But I'd only be a little less supportive of the change. I don't see myself filling 10k of hopper space except in extreme cases. I've run mediums on 95+% spots and I didn't get over 6k. I only see it capping if I run heavies on premium spots and I don't plan to play very often... an extreme case. If they grandfathered in old harvesters, I think the vast majority of people would not notice a difference.
I could give a (bleep) what the extraction rate is.
If I have to visit them every other day (if not every day), then its a garbage system.
Fair enough?
Ygu wrote:
fsuchan:
I've been getting conflicting information. But if you're right, then that is indeed a drastic cut. But I'd only be a little less supportive of the change. I don't see myself filling 10k of hopper space except in extreme cases. I've run mediums on 95+% spots and I didn't get over 6k. I only see it capping if I run heavies on premium spots and I don't plan to play very often... an extreme case. If they grandfathered in old harvesters, I think the vast majority of people would not notice a difference.
I'm not on test, but the numbers I saw in the test center forum thread looked good. Multiple harvestors created at different percentages etc.
At to the quantity collected, an 80% spot should get you 4608 units in 1 day. The 10K 100% experimentation is a theoretical, no one will have all 1000 quality resources. So say you pick up a decent harvestor, 70-75% at about 8K capacity. That's less than 48 hours before it fills up.