Architect Archive

I believe that experimentation should play a part in architect wares, but don't believe that the quality of our materials should have any affect on the product. As many people have said in this thread, it takes an insane amount of resources to make architectural items. There is a lot more average resources floating around which is perfect for our use. If resource quality was not an issue, then it would be soley the experiment points that determine the quality of the product, thus making a master item more sought after.

While saying that, I don't think experimenting should have that much of an impact on the final product either. There should be a base value and then, at most, make the highest experimentation only add a couple points to the extraction rate. So, take a base of 7 for a heavy harv and the highest you could get it would be 10. Only a master using all the experiment points with a great succes could reach this value. Same with a novice, they would have to get a great success just to reach 8 or 9. This means that there is not much disparity between architects, with part time players and dabblers, but just enough to let the masters make higher QL items and raise there price a bit.

Resources are already abundant. Having harvs that can get up to 14, or from what some are saying, 19 extraction rate is outrageous and will only serve to wreck the economy even worse than it is. Resourcesdrive the economy. If everyone can pull them in at that rate, prices will drop like a rock. It might even be a burden to miners to have so many resources as they cannot sell them all.

Well, I am replacing all my heavies with maxed out mediums. I'm not getting rid of the heavy deeds just yet though. I'ts cheaper for me to place 14 mediums with 7 extraction rates as it is my fleet of 14 heavies.

I will NOT seel any IMPROVED harvesters to my customers UNTIL I know for absolute sure the numbers are going to remain the way they are.

Contrary to what a few people think is happening with double power usage, it simply isn't so. I had pre-patch placed harvesters that used the same amount as before and I have them all pulled up and placed again post patch and they are all still using 75/RL hour. Don't go by the displayed hours. You have to go by RL hours. I even have post patch made harvs. They ALL use 75/RL hour.

If you say your harvesters are using double then either you don't know what you are talking about because you haven't PHYSICALLY verified it and just repeating what other people claim based on the DISPLAYED numbers OR, you have a messed up harvester. I suggest you VERIFY PHYSICALLY that it is ACTUALLY using double power.

BTW, I DO like the new experimentation, the way it's implementated and all. Especially where all you have to do is experiment on the subcomponent that does the actual work. Yes, Master Archs need mroe experiementation points to set us apart from the fly by night architects who only gained skill in the harvester line to make them for cash and was not really interested in the Architect field at all.

I'm glad they reverted back and went with the baseline of the old harvesters and didn't nerf the crap out of all the old existing ones like they originally planned to do.

I just wish they would let us know if these changes were going to stick around or not.

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Marthis wrote:
FROM: _-ArchAngel-_ Add User to Friends List · Add User to Ignore List
SENT: 10-14-2003 10:42 AM

Re: Confirmation...

Holy repeating messages Batman, I got that one four times =)

I actually posted regarding this earlier on. The issue as it stands now is: Hoppers will remain experimentable... They just wont be as small as on TC (the post litterally said "the numbers implented on TC will not be transfered to live"). Harvester extraction rate experimentation will be removed and all harvesters will revert.

The proper extraction rates are:

2/4/7 for miners and 5/8/13 for generators.

The proper experimentation ranges on storage is

25..50k/50k..75k/100k..150k
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The above was a response from AA regarding experimentation. Except for hopper sizes, it's a moot point now.

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Funny how there are 2 or 3 posts after this one confirming that extraction rates are being nerfed.

I think it's good that experimentation finally means something. But don't let it affect extraction rate. That's just too powerful a thing to affect. Let it affect output storage size, power/maintenance rates. But not extraction rate.

And I think it is a very, very bad idea for the devs to tinker with how it all works on the live servers. Greenmarine said in a post a week ago when this was seen on test center that experimentation affecting extraction rate wouldn't make it to the live servers because it was game-breakingly powerful. The hotfix should be to back that out of the live servers. Not play around with it to see if it could work.

I do not want to have to buy new harvesters again and again. Especially when the resale value on my current heavy harvesters will be nil. There are medium harvs just as good now that cost 1/10 the price and have lower maintenance/power costs.

This change has me very upset.

WE FINALLY GET OUR OTHER 5 POINTS!!! WOOT!!!

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Marthis wrote:

***** 300k for a medium?? Not a chance in hell you would ever sell at that rate. Expecially since a unexperimented heavy can be gotten for 90k, you spends obscene months before you broke even in maitenance savings. And 600k for a heavy, sorry but the people who can afford that are already retired *****

You do realize that the cost per unit to mine something ranges from .35 to .75 credits per unit, right? the lower end is on a high concentration spot and providing your own power (and taking into account the maint costs of the fusion gen) and the higher number is on a lower concentration and paying roughly 1cr/u for power...do the math sometime...A normal heavy harvester will mine roughly 5.4k of resources on a 50% concentration. You spend 2160cr/day in maintenance, and 1800 power/day for it. If you buy power at 1cr/u, you spend, out of pocket, 3960cr per heavy. 3960/5400 = .73cr/u cost out of pocket. It doesn't pay to run your own fusion until you have more heavies to power up, but once you add that second heavy harv, it pays to run your own fusion to power all that you have...and any excess power left over you can store/sell.

Architects that sell heavies now for 90k are idiots and hurt the profession. That's barely 3cr/u value. Even at 200k a heavy, a miner mining a 75% spot of anything in demand and able to sell at going rates for materials will be able to make their money back on the heavy in roughly 9-10 days...and then have the harvester to mine NOTHING BUT PROFIT afterwards...A heavy that mines at 10kh/h instead of one that mines at 7kg/h gains 42% more per day that the 7kg/h harvester....do the math...architects could double the price of that heavy to 400k and they would still have it paid off in 10-11 days and STILL be making MORE money after that....at least until they add some form of decay. What don't you get!? A medium priced at 200k with an extraction rate of 7 pays for itself in 9-10 days, then it's all profit...but of course folks won't charge that...plenty will still sell them for the going rate of 15-20k....and not realize they are just shooting themselves in the foot.

Yeah, it's the people who are dumb, especially novices who just go up installations 4 who do it a lot, and sell dirt cheap because they see themselves making money by harvesting their own materials. What they don't realize, is over the long term, taking into account failures, etc, is that they end up LOSING money over just selling the resources...show me a crafting, non-medic, profession in this game other than architects (and maybe droid engineers/chefs) who lose money...certainly not armorsmiths...or weaponsmiths...or bio-engineers....or tailors....

Another easy way - when, and if, they intend for this to happen, and we get our remaining experimentation - masters...DO NOT SELL THE MINING COMPONENTS...that will differentiate us from the novices who take installations 4 looking ot make fast and easy money...

Lastly, we still have yet to see a dev confirm this was an intended change.

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Look at the two statements you made that I highlighted in red. I've done the math and quite simply so have you but you seem to have missed the conjunction of the two. That is that part where is costs 0.6 cr/unit average to procure resources. Meaning that a structure selling at 3cr/unit nets a profit margin of 2.4cr.unit, or enough to cover4 critical failures without any credit loss. Maybe you should re-evaluate why these people don't seem to be leaving the profession as fast as you think they are.

As for the green statement, they may be losing money when compared to straight mining, but they still make a profit overall and garner the one thing straight mining can't get them, profession advancement. Funny that some people might want that too, eh??

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Bolanos wrote:

I am not an Architect, I am a miner. I do more mining then anything else, including all day long sampling. I finally struggled to get the best, a full arsenal of heavy minerals, only to get screwed in the end because now people could buy, for less, a medium that pulls as much as my heavies at half the price, and you can now get a heavy that pulls more then the ones I poored over a million credits to getting (for all of them). If this change stay's in place, my prices will raise in mining, which means all the architect that purchase from me will lose money in the long run while I make up my loss from being screwed since I can't even sell my heavies for 50k when purchased for twice that amount because everyone wants only the new ones. As I see it, if this is in, the architects will hurt just as much as the miner's that support you, because asa miner, I always gave discounts to architects, that will end along with all the other miner's I know of.

IF, this is a big 'IF', because I don't know what you all want, but IF you really are looking for a way to make money, this isn't the way, because doing this is screwing over everyone that isn't an architect. Also, harvester's purchased for 100k+ and decaying on you really sucks, and is not a solution to your problem either.But, if you ask me, the solution is in front of you and I haven't heard a single architect ask for it (or at least from what I have read no one has asked for it). Why should someone who is NOT an architect be able to maintain a harvester? We put credits into the harvester to maintain it in top shape, where do those credits go? what maintains those harvester's for us? If you ask me a percentage of that maintanence money should go to the creator of the harvester, say 5%? or 10% max, of the cash goes into his bank account once we add the money in. The other 90% will go to the server of course as a cash sink, think of it as the architect's cost of materials for maintanence. This way, although your not making something for someone, you are still making a daily flow of money for your item in maintenance (form of decay without the loss).

If this harvester change stay's in the game, then I think we should fight to have all of the prepatch ones take the correct effect, because I know the person that made mine experimented on it cause he likes to do that. I'm sure that information is in the system which runs with that serial number, otherwise it will be highly unfair to the majority of the population of SWG players.

I also believe that you guys should look into that maintanence idea, you never know

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I like the changes. Will keep me an Architect a bit longer. Of course, I have to wait until the next big patch anyhow, as I will be replacing my rather smalls PA's harv with the best I can make, and I want full experimentation on them. So I get to hoard resources. As to those they think resource prices will fall...godI hope so, on Naboo/Chilly there is not a single unit of Ore available on bazaar for less than 5/unit. But I dont think they will drop. We will just have bigger stockpiles that take longer to run dry. More top of the line weapons get made, meaning more people get a chance to use something really good. Same with armor. Spread the wealth. Also means more enhances out there for the docs, and so on... How is this bad? I personally think that most of the people that are complaining about this are either Miners that don't want to have to migrate to new harvesters to compete, or PA architects that will have to build a whole new fleet. I do not see this as hurting the little guys, as I am one. Main thing is make sure you charge what they are worth. As in...how long do you think a miner should have to run it for it to pay for itself. Personally, I will be charging 20k per point over base rate, medium and heavy, on top of my current prices. Hopper size dont matter really. Might go with 30k/point. Not sure yet. Dont plan on making many until i get my other 5 experiment points.

Oh, for Fuss (or any other MArch on Chilly that has skill tapes to do it)....if you want to sell +4 mining units (of all types), I will pay 10/resource for crates of them. Could use 40 OMUs, 30 FDPUs , 10 LOMUs and 10 HMs, each part from a single factory schem. Total would come to 500k. These would be for my PA, not for sales units.

Thanks