Architect Archive
Thread: Galaxy Wide Vendor Search
SayUncle
Fri Mar 11, 2005 4:55 pm
#40
I hate the running around and consider it a waste of game play time.
Would be nice if bazaar/vendors offered even more break down of resources,
i.e. polysteel copper instead of copper, or instead have a search function.
Ackew
Sat Mar 12, 2005 7:19 am
#41
An example of how a small guild could VERY easerly supply itscrafters with FREE (to the crafters) resources for VERY little effort. In the following example thevaluesi use areshownbelow.
The resouce harvest % is 80. The per day cost in creditsof a fuison 1440, for a Heavy harv is 2160. A Heavy harv uses 1800 units of energy.The factorys costs1440 creditsa dayand use1200 energy. A house costs 360 credits and a Vendor 720.The avarge PE of energy harvested means 1 unit of radioactive= 1.5 units of energy. A mission pays you 12.5k and takes 3 mins. A buff lasts 3 hours. A ResourceSpawn lasts 10 days.
We have a small guild of say20 people. A w/s, a/s, chef, BE, doc, s/w, d/e and13 combat types. Which gives use200 lots to work with. Everyone has a med house so thats 40 lots gone. So 160 lots left. Each of the crafter has3 factories shall we say thats leave
139.
We need power to run the factories and hravs so we have16 fuisons harvs that will cost them23040 a dayto run Or for the whole spawn 230400. The fuisons produce258048 units of radioactivea day, Which is 387072 units of energy.
We now have 123 Lots left for harvs of which we will use 120. These Harvs will cost 259200 a day to run and use 216060 units of energy. They will produce 1,935,360 resources A DAY. This is VASTLY MORE than enough to supply all the crafters and any thing that need to be harvested by hand IE meat and hides can be got by the combat types.
The factories cost 30240 credits a day and use 25200 units of energy a day. The 20 houses cost 7200 a day to run. The 20 vendors cost 14400.
So the total cost of runing all the stuff the guild uses a day is 23040+259200+30240+7200+14400 = 334080 credits. Which can be earned BY ONE PERSON IN LESS THAN92 MINS You can do27 missions inthat time27*12500 = 337500. These misson are can be got by ANY elite combat master on yavin 4.
So since it only needs just over half a buff session to pay for all the guild expensive all the money earned by the other 12 combat types can be used to buy anything that the guild crafters can't make. If they only did 1 buff session a day. they would earn 7.2 million a day. Quite enough to buy anything they wanted.
So now the crafters have loads more resources then they need to make stuff for the guild. So now they can sell the stuff they makefor any pricethey like and STILL be makeing money. So they could sell thier harv for 10k and make a 10k profit. or Sell a complete set of compo armour for 20k and make a 20k profit.
Another thing WHY SHOULD a crafter HAVE to take up a combat proff to earn money? A combat type does NOT have to take a crafting proff to make money. Why should a perfectly vaild playstyle (ie pure crafter) not be able to make money and have todo something they don't wish to do (ie combat/missions)
Greywulf0
Sat Mar 12, 2005 10:01 am
#42
That sounds good the way it is put down. However the logistics involved in coordinating all those people, and all those harvesrter, with all the different resources required for all of the different crafting professions will negate all of this.
You say that guild will produce 2 million resources a day for the crafters. But that is based on an assumption that they find a large field of 80% concetration, for all the fruit, berries, wood, vegetables, cereal (I'm a chef), plus all the other resources for the other crafters. Like ore, steel, copper, iron, gas, radioactive, fiberplast, etc.
Then you need to take in the time it will take to find high concentrations for all of the different resources. I once spent a day surveying for high (60%+) concentrations for three particularly good spawns of chef resources. Doing nothing else but surveying. I would find some high concentrations, but I wasn't able to place harvesters there (near cities, POIs, just bad terrain, near a battlefield, etc). Don't forget. Crafters require high quality resources as well. Most of what spawns does not qualify.
So now, this guild would need several surveyers on a non-stop loop looking for spawns for all of the crafting professions.
"Another thing WHY SHOULD a crafter HAVE to take up a combat proff to earn money? A combat type does NOT have to take a crafting proff to make money. Why should a perfectly vaild playstyle (ie pure crafter) not be able to make money and have todo something they don't wish to do (ie combat/missions)"
They don't. But you should be aware that if you don't want combat skills, then you had best be in a guild awful hard to place harvesters down with a spawn of grauls nearby without a guild to call on or combat skills to eliminate them. The vendor search won't change that in the least, it is already a fact now. This is called a personal choice, the rules are laid down, and you have to chose what you want to do with them. Another point can be made this way. Why should combat types be forced to rely on crafters for armor, weapons, foods, buffs?
Finally, it seems that you are upset that guilds have an advantage over players not in guilds. Guess what, they do! They always have and they always will. That is the entire point behind a MMORPG. To interact with other players.
If you want to be a true crafter and merchant, might I suggest that you contact other players and work deals with them. You might be surprised at how successful you can be.
Vastar
Sat Mar 12, 2005 8:08 pm
#43
Wow, people are still talking about this? I thought we'd moved on...
I don't even care anymore. Heck, I say put it in, all of it. Put in galaxy wide vendor searches and remote pickups. Sure, it'll be a shallow system that robs SWG of even more of that which makes it unique but truthfully, I'll end up making more credits than I do now. Of course, since SWG will consist of me taking ten minutes to load factories and stock vendors, I'll become bored quickly. No problem, I can ebay my millions, close my account and buy a big plasma TV to use as a monitor! Yay for SWG!
(I so long for the days when online gaming was just brand new and folks could handle an interesting gaming experience.)
I don't even care anymore. Heck, I say put it in, all of it. Put in galaxy wide vendor searches and remote pickups. Sure, it'll be a shallow system that robs SWG of even more of that which makes it unique but truthfully, I'll end up making more credits than I do now. Of course, since SWG will consist of me taking ten minutes to load factories and stock vendors, I'll become bored quickly. No problem, I can ebay my millions, close my account and buy a big plasma TV to use as a monitor! Yay for SWG!
(I so long for the days when online gaming was just brand new and folks could handle an interesting gaming experience.)
TiTanB
Sat Mar 12, 2005 9:33 pm
#44
I read most of the first page here and although I haven't previously been involved in these descussions. I like many people hate the never ending search for goods. I had a couple thoughts to protect both sides and accomplish several but not all of the goals. Merchants don't want a price war and buyers don't want to search empty vendors.
-make bazar search global BUT don't list prices
-either allow players to type in search criteria or add a lot more subcategories to the search window
-require buyers to pick up the items
-could be an option in the bazar window to retrieve a merchants way point for a selected item
I believe this solves many problems:
-no more checking empty vendors
-will still require footwork to shop for the lowest price
-merchants won't get in a price war
problems this can create:
-merchants will put the price of goods in the names of crafted items and I haven't thought of a workaround for this as many crafters need to add stats to the name of an item so eliminating alterations to the name of an item may not be acceptable
just a few thoughts but I am sure they have been mentioned on the other huge thread in the development forum
Greywulf0
Sat Mar 12, 2005 11:42 pm
#45
Vastar wrote:
Wow, people are still talking about this? I thought we'd moved on...
I don't even care anymore. Heck, I say put it in, all of it. Put in galaxy wide vendor searches and remote pickups. Sure, it'll be a shallow system that robs SWG of even more of that which makes it unique but truthfully, I'll end up making more credits than I do now. Of course, since SWG will consist of me taking ten minutes to load factories and stock vendors, I'll become bored quickly. No problem, I can ebay my millions, close my account and buy a big plasma TV to use as a monitor! Yay for SWG!
(I so long for the days when online gaming was just brand new and folks could handle an interesting gaming experience.)
You know, I'm begining to agree with you on this, but for a different reason.
I wish the devs would just grow a pair of balls and put it in the game. Then they can see what happens and if it does suck, pull it out. They don't even need to put it in live, just TC (I don't think it ever went to TC) and then leave it there long enough to examine it.
Ackew
Sun Mar 13, 2005 1:18 am
#46
I'm sure the 7 crafters in that guild can survey for thier own resources. After all just one elite profession leaves they with more then enough SP to get survey 4. Aslo since all but the s/w can make everything in a factory. They will have loads of time to survey. I'm an S/W i know all about the need for high quality resources.
I AM in a guild if you saw where it saysPA under my nickyou will see it says I'm in a PA called EDEN. I have nothing against PA's Iwas justshowing you an example of how a small guild COULD give its crafters FREE resources very easery becaue you said they could'nt.
The reason WHY combat types NEED crafters is as you said That is the entire point behind a MMORPG. To interact with other players. BUT combat types CAN make money WITH OUT crafters . Where as are crafters CAN NOT make money with out combat types.
The problem as i said before was that WITH the vendor search showing price ONLY those people who get FREE resources from thier guild (which as i show can be done with VERY LITTLE effort) will be able to get sales as they can sell for next to nothing and STILL make money when no one else CAN.
Let me ask you something If you where used this system and found 2 chest plates 1 for 100k and 1 for 20k and thier both the same as far as stats which would YOU buy?
Ackew
Sun Mar 13, 2005 7:22 am
#47
Greywulf0 wrote:
You are still ignoring my point, however. I'm saying that it isn't that easy for a guild to supply resources for all the crafting professions, due to the reasons I listed above. Therefore, most crafters will still end up buying resources elsewhere, and that will be reflected in their pricing.
You have also ignored the point about supply and demand. If some crafters can sell for less, then their items will quickly disappear. This means that higher priced goods will still be sold.
Make a counterpoint to these two issues, and I might debate you some more, otherwise I'm done with this conversation.
Just casue your incapable of surveying for good spots does'nt mean everyone else is. If in the UNLIKELY event that none of the guild or any of thier friends can find a good spot for a resource. Then they could use some of thier 7+ million a day they get to buy what they need for makeing stufffor the guild. Even if they got enough to make more when your guild is earning a min of 7 million a day loseing a few hundredthousand is nothing. So your telling that if one of them put 1000suits of armouron thier vendor for 20k for example they would ALL be gone by the time they made some more ? I don't think so, and in the unlikely event they where so they might not get a few sales. But whos to say as it's SOEASY to do that thier they ONLY guild thats does it.
BTW i see you avoided to answer my question. What a supprise. Now whos avoiding the point. Oh and thanks for the 1 stars its shows you care and i'm right 
Zadioc
Tue Mar 15, 2005 5:21 am
#48
Of course merchants are gonna hate having a vendor search in-game, it means they have to work 
I mean sometimes you wanna buy something other than a factory crate of grenades, or a tie light duty fighter blueprint. Nothing is more of a time waster than running to a hundred different vendors looking for something, because the shop said one thing on the planet map, but is either empty or sells something entirely different once you get there. It's an issue of convenience really, money is easy to get in this game so pricing isn't that big a deal.
I mean sometimes you wanna buy something other than a factory crate of grenades, or a tie light duty fighter blueprint. Nothing is more of a time waster than running to a hundred different vendors looking for something, because the shop said one thing on the planet map, but is either empty or sells something entirely different once you get there. It's an issue of convenience really, money is easy to get in this game so pricing isn't that big a deal.
DocSavag
Tue Mar 15, 2005 6:51 am
#49
Zadioc wrote:Of course merchants are gonna hate having a vendor search in-game, it means they have to work
There were ways to fix that issue without damaging the merchant profession. Sadly those ideas were abandoned and they went back to essentially the same propsoal as before which:
1. gives Business III Artisans the same advertising power as a Master Merchant.
2. Eliminates the motivation for merchants to build shops that have various well stocked vendors.
3. Makes it harder to form business relationships.
4. Creates situations where it is easy to grief players who have purchased high cost merchandise and then have to travel to pick it up.
5. Creates a market ruled by random chance and volume of sales instead of location, advertising and repeat business.
Searching the global vendor database to find good well stocked vendors should have been the goal. Turning vendors into pickup points for the bazaar against the wishes of the merchants who pay their $15 a month in order to play the game just the same as everyone one else wasn't necessary to fix that.
Jagged-F3l
Tue Mar 15, 2005 7:22 am
#50
elevenbravo11b2 wrote:
When?
To me, this update is almost as important as the combat revamp. Im SO sick of having to shop for stuff. If I wanted to go shopping I would just go with my wife in RL.
You obviously don't understand the nuances of these changes and the broader impact on existing merchants, so I will point them out to you.
- Currently, serious merchants grind to Advertising III to put their vendors on the planetary map. Understand that this change instantly negates these skills, as ANYONE with a vendor can enable this feature.
- This feature removes the motivation for maintaining a store front, which negates much of the merchant profession. The Advertising branch of merchant will be rendered useless. There will be no motivation to pickup anything ine Hiring branch of merchant. What good is the merchant profession, except to obtain more vendors and more capacity?
- There will be terrible price wars, as a perspective customer can now see all prices of a given item across the entire galaxy. Small business owners will be driven out of business, and customers will become prey of large guilds and player cities. Why? After all the small business owners have been driven out, they can control prices.
Yes, there are upsides to this feature for the casual player, the lazy player, and the noobs of the Galaxy. And you are right, this change will be at least as important as the CU, because it will destroy the player-driven economy in a way that you can't possibly imagine if you think these changes are good changes.
Jagged-F3l
Tue Mar 15, 2005 7:29 am
#51
Let me draw you a picture so you can see how this will impact the consumer. After these changes go live, every merchant in the galaxy will have no choice but to enable their vendors to be "galaxy searchable". If you don't, your dead. However, at this point merchants that have the backing of large guilds and/or player cities will monitor prices on items they believe to be popular and/or profitable. After which, they will adjust their prices lower than everyone's, and continue monitoring. There may be a time where prices will spiral downward, until players with small business can no longer afford to be in business. When the merchants that have big backing are satisfied with the results of the "price wars", then they will assume control of that market segment and raise their prices, probably higher than previous to the release of this poorly though out feature.
Puertoriqueno wrote:
ELAzalin wrote:
I hope the never do this lazy arse system that they want to do.,.... you should get no instant delivery or shopping
Thats a little serving to the crafter and not the consumer, dont you think? I tend to feel like these people are our customers, and they owe us nothing. We need to be a bit more empathetic. We can still retain the stock in our stores, but people should be able to browse for what they want at least....
Oh man, here we go.....
Jagged-F3l
Tue Mar 15, 2005 7:32 am
#52
Balzan wrote:
tbh I think it is going to be a useful addition to the game. Do you have any idea how long it takes to find some one who sells houses? I speant 40 minutes looking of r a Large Nubian... On Naboo!
However I do think that the item should require you to travel to the store and purchase it there.
In my opinion, it only serves the lazy. For the year and a half I have played this game, I only spend the kind of a time you're talking about initially finding a respectable merchant and developing a relationship with them. After a time, I know I can depend on going to "PlayerX" for my vibroknucklers and "PlayerY" for my armor and "PlayerZ" for my food and drink. This should be part of being a respectable and dependable merchant.