Architect Archive

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RotorofCorRng wrote:

Not necessarily cheaper finished products. For the base harvs, yes. For the ubber harvs that you want to use Owito Steel on, no, they wont be cheaper. Not any more than a Composite set made with the best resources.

However, I can see medium baseline harvs going for 8k to 9k.

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Composite Armor decays, harvestors do not. You forgot that point.

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Jyss wrote:

2. Extraction Rate: This feature is simply AWESOME. This feature can set the masters apart from the apprentices (since we get more experimetnation points). Also it will stop people from just taking the instal or building lines and if yo uwant to make good harvesters you must get to master, not just do the instal line and save your other skill points for uses in other areas. Altho i would suggest that a harvesters maintance and/or power be scaled up based on the extraction rate. So the materials would still cost the same to harvest as other heavies, just that you could get more materials out of that one harvester using only one lot. So the money sink stays the same and prices on resources dont fluctuate.

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Isn't this what having light, medium and heavy harvestors is all about??

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Starkillr wrote:
I think the current method of experimentation is implemented perfectly. I'm a bit concerned that there is such a small gap between medium harvesters and heavies, especially because of the tremendous gap between them in resources needed to build. I would like to see a higher range on the heavies to help make them easier to differentiate. Either that or lower the mediums to 6. Of course, with them making experimentation work, they very much need to make us a 100/100 profession for assembly/experimentation like the others. Tell them they need to do this now!That way we can really say whether the mediums are too close to the heavies. With getting 75% experiments we don't know what 99% will do for us.

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It's an overlap, not a gap, and I'll buy high end mediums before I buy heavies. I can make more money as a miner with them since my cost to extract plummets considerably and I can still charge as if using a heavy.

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Goff_McMerrii wrote:

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Rheet wrote:

Ok, i only have a problem from a standpoint of pricing.

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This comming from one of your customers (you know, those people that pay for your harvesters):

- Unexperimented Medium Harvesters: 20K (5.5cpu) as is "average" now
- Unexperimented Heavy Harvesters: 150K (5.5cpu) as is "average" now

Sidenote: your customers will and do pay upto 7cpu for your mechanics.

- Experimented medium harvesters as good as unexperimented Heavies: 2x old heavy harvester price: 300K
- Experimented heavy harvesters: 4x old heavy harvester price: 600K

Anything less will kill your market in a matter of weeks again.

Goff McMerrii
Miner

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300k for a medium?? Not a chance in hell you would ever sell at that rate. Expecially since a unexperimented heavy can be gotten for 90k, you spends obscene months before you broke even in maitenance savings. And 600k for a heavy, sorry but the people who can afford that are already retired.

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DToxWeaponsInc wrote:

Hi Architects, welcome to the real world!

All kidding aside, you guys seem to have a bit of a pricing problem, and are confused as to why your items "overlap" in effectiveness.

As a Weaponsmith, we have plenty of guns that overlap each other. For example, if you're a Carbine user, you probably don't wanna bother with anything other than a Laser Carbine. An Elite Carbine or an E11, simply suck compared to the stats we can pump out of a Laser Carbine, while a Laser can be made at Firearms 4, but an Elite Carbine takes Master Weaponsmith.

You're basically going to end up with an item that has a very good ratio...in our case, it's Damage Per Second, or the average damage of a weapon divided by the speed (delay) of the weapon. In your case, it seems to be Extraction rate over (Maintenance + Power). So, a Medium with 7 extraction rate is going to beat out a Heavy with 7 extraction rate. However, a lot of people will hold extraction rate as more important over Maintenance and Power, so will opt for a Heavy at 10 or more extraction rate, even though their Maintenance is higher, and the ratio is worse. The same thing happens to us with people who choose to have higher damage weapons at the expense of speed (ok, not the same thing, as these guys have skills that offset the speed penalty...of course, there are Merchants out there who can offset the cost of harvesters).

Anyhow, I wouldn't worry too much about it...your customers will end up dictating to you what they want. I myself want the 10+ extraction Heavies...I only have 5 lots available for Harvesters and want the most extraction possible, regardless of cost.

As far as pricing, do what Weaponsmiths have been doing forever...price based upon demand. You were regulated to pricing according to resources because your skill never mattered...now, one needs to find a Master to provide a high quality harvester, thus, there's a certain level of cost above and beyond simple resources. If people are willing to pay 300K for a 10+ extraction rate Heavy Harvester, then that's your price. Don't base your prices on the lowest denominator of customers, though...there's always going to be someone who wants to buy stuff on the cheap, and frankly have no clue what they're asking for. Stay firm on your pricing, and you can pull off a nice profit now that you've got your experimentation working.

I'll leave you guys by thanking you for the info on harvesters that I was looking for...I actually came here wanting to know what was possible now that you guys are able to experiment.

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The supply and demand models for weapons is entirely different from structures. The reason prices are so low is because there is to many people selling vs buying. While sales may increase initially, they will fall sharply within weeks and architechs will then again be left with noone to sell to.

Pistols don't require 30k resources a pop though.

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Fuss wrote:
Nah, I like experimentation. Every other class is setup like this, nobody is going to buy a novice weaponsmiths pistol.

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Let me try again. /sigh

Pistols don't take 30k resources a pop though and people do buy from novices as they have to get an intermediate weapon so they can take missions that get them to the higher end weapons. Structures are not even close to this model.

I think the current method of experimentation is implemented perfectly. I'm a bit concerned that there is such a small gap between medium harvesters and heavies, especially because of the tremendous gap between them in resources needed to build. I would like to see a higher range on the heavies to help make them easier to differentiate. Either that or lower the mediums to 6. Of course, with them making experimentation work, they very much need to make us a 100/100 profession for assembly/experimentation like the others. Tell them they need to do this now! That way we can really say whether the mediums are too close to the heavies. With getting 75% experiments we don't know what 99% will do for us.

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Dayln wrote:

Your problem Rheet is that you are basing it on a fixed price of 3-4 cr, when the extraction cost of a unit of resource is changing dramatically.

The bottom line of all finished prices will be affected by changes to the cost of extraction long term.

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Your problem Dayln is that I don't give a flying frick what you think about how I price things. Is it to hard not to critisize every post someone makes with something contray to the spirit of the post/thread?

On another note, why do some weapons do more damage then others but cost less. It would be nice to have a consensus on how to proceed. Price per cr was very easy to use as a standard.

Actually one more thing, I'd like hopper size to be experimented on a lower level component and not the final combine. It's not practical to factory harvesters at teh high end and it sucks to crit fail experimenting on the final. It's pretty obvious which subcomponent to use as the hopper size also for experimentation. This would make life much easier and wouldn't be a horrible thing imo.

I was against experimentation but now that it's in and I've thought it over more I like it.

Howdy ArchAngel.

Would you mind explaining in detail what/how this all works now onMed/Heavy Harvesters? Im a little more then a causal player and I am totally clueless withwhat to do now when I make Harvesters. I am sure there are ALOT of us Novice Archsout there now who just doesnt understand how to make these moving forward to get the best results. What exactly do I focus on when making a Medium for example? What specific resources should I be using for the components when there is a choice: Steel, ALum, Copper? I have a crafting station in our PA so experimenting isnt the problem. Actually, it would be nice to explain experimenting as well.

I guess this new feature is good for the powergamers but folks like myself who dontalways check these forums are in the dark on this. I for one dont like it. But that is just me. I play to relax and have fun but now I am spending my time reading all of these threads trying to piece together what I need to know. It would be helpful if you could create a sticky thread withwhat to do now andthen lock the thread. LOL---A thread for Arch Dummies....I guess Im just looking for an easy step by step on how to make a quality Med/HeavyHarvester.

People are very helpful on these forums but to have to go thru alot of useful/opinions in threads just to get what is reality is time consuming. It would be nice if SWG would put out the official feedback and information.

Thanks---Happy Trails.

There are reports on Gorath of harvesters spontaneously reverted from a rate of 10 to a rate of 7, even after they're deployed. I have no idea what's going on there.