Architect Archive
Thread: Price guide: Appendix to 'Underpricing Archs' thread
i am so sick of this idiotic low cut architect wannabe businessmen who dont care anything about economy and ruin market for the rest of the architects. why they do it? cause they mostlikely got alts whoich earn the real cash aka fighter char and dantooine missions.
check this out and start to cry, its so rediculous /sigh
http://forums.station.sony.com/swg/board/message?board.id=intrepid_trade&message.id=78520
Veers_Intrepid wrote:
...
check this out and start to cry, its so rediculous /sigh
http://forums.station.sony.com/swg/board/message?board.id=intrepid_trade&message.id=78520
(Veers the following isn't really directed at you but is just mygeneral commentary)
Ya this bit is not extremly polite: "Tired of being forced to buy from overpriced merchants ,price setting and architects attempting to bully others to sell items at prices that hurt you the customer??" But then I got to wonder if he started that or if its in reaction to something someone else did? Maybe another architect did in fact try to "bully" this guy to raise his prices? That can only hurt the situation. If someone with higher prices pressures a cheaper architect to raise their prices then it will only vindicate their view that the higher priced folks are "unfair", "bullies" or whaterver. Its like throwing gas on their fire, IMHO. Sometimes the cheap folks are on some sort of "holy war" as if they think they're battling Walmart for the good of the little guy or something. Sometimes they want to "prove a point" and if we provide them nobody to argue with then they wander off to find something else to do.
This is semi-OT, but I notice I see a lot of these types of statements in on-line boards.
"His first line is insulting to me......."
So? He uttered some words. Who cares? Do you believe that his words accurately describe you or your actions? If no, then he's telling the truth. If not, then he has his opinion. It doesn't mean anything.
You ***choose*** how you react to other people's behavior. They are going to act however they act - you cannot change them. The only choice you have in the situation is in how you react. If you let someone "make you angry" then you just gave control of your life to that other guy.
That's also why these discussions on pricing never really get anyplace - at the end of the day each of us has a model of the world and a definition of what is "fun" for us, and we *will* play to achieve that fun - or we will quit. Telling someone else that their definition of fun is "hurting you" seems pretty silly.
I participate in some of these pricing discussion so I can offer people a different point of view to consider that might help them in enjoying the game more. It has nothing to do with *my* business. It has nothing to do with being "right".
My sense is that some of the people who struggle to have fun as an architect might enjoy it more if they had a different take on the basic economics of the profession. My observation is that people who think in terms of "credits per unit" put themselves in a corner where they don't have fun, and that people who think in terms of "customer value" are more likely to be creative in their business models and have more fun.
Pawlin wrote:
Veers_Intrepid wrote:
...
check this out and start to cry, its so rediculous /sigh
http://forums.station.sony.com/swg/board/message?board.id=intrepid_trade&message.id=78520
(Veers the following isn't really directed at you but is just mygeneral commentary)
Ya this bit is not extremly polite: "Tired of being forced to buy from overpriced merchants ,price setting and architects attempting to bully others to sell items at prices that hurt you the customer??" But then I got to wonder if he started that or if its in reaction to something someone else did? Maybe another architect did in fact try to "bully" this guy to raise his prices? That can only hurt the situation. If someone with higher prices pressures a cheaper architect to raise their prices then it will only vindicate their view that the higher priced folks are "unfair", "bullies" or whaterver. Its like throwing gas on their fire, IMHO. Sometimes the cheap folks are on some sort of "holy war" as if they think they're battling Walmart for the good of the little guy or something. Sometimes they want to "prove a point" and if we provide them nobody to argue with then they wander off to find something else to do.
I think that the best policy thus far for dealing with undercutters is to simply ignore them.
In fact I'll go so far as to say that you should be friendly with them. You might find out something interesting. If you find a architect selling factories for 30k for example. Ask them: "hows business?" You might even find out they aren't selling many. A lot of times the low prices are really due to the architect not knowing how else to get business or not knowing what current market value is. No matter what they say you can respond "Ya I'm selling the factories for 30k+ x myself and I sold about y of them last week". Now this might not sound like much but its quite likely they'll think to themselves, hmm. I must be too cheap. Even if they think you're evil and they're selling at the fair price they will see that you're selling quite a few. That at least shows to them that there is real demand at your higher price. Or you can also take the tact of asking if they'd like to partner with you and offer to buy their deeds and split the difference between their price and yours. So if they sell for 30k and you sell for 50k you pay them 40k and then flip them for 50k. They might be thrilled to do so. Maybe they just like to do some building on the side but aren't really too much into running t he business side so they just throw their deeds on a vendor for some cheap price so they'll move quick. And even if they don't want to then t hey probably wont' be too upset if you ask as opposed to buying out their vendor and flipping the stuff without asking.
I personally do ignore what others are pricing - well, I'm aware of it but don't make an issue of it. They have the right to do so as much as I have the right to not follow. If anything, I feel that I'M the onegetting bullied all the time to lower my prices below my comfort level and opt not to do so. Hmmm.... maybe I should post a protest to! 
I want to comment on the part I highlighted in yellow. I don't see anything wrong with buying off a merchant and reselling it on mine nor this need to 'ask for permission'. I also don't believe I'm being 'rude'. It's not like I can claim that I manufactured the product - simply examining the deed will tell you who made it. The person selling the merchandise believes that they are getting a fair and reasonable return on their pricing - if I can flip it and also make a return, where is the harm? It's still a win-win situation.
Sevardos wrote:
...And even if they don't want to then t hey probably wont' be too upset if you ask as opposed to buying out their vendor and flipping the stuff without asking.
...I want to comment on the part I highlighted in yellow. I don't see anything wrong with buying off a merchant and reselling it on mine nor this need to 'ask for permission'. I also don't believe I'm being 'rude'. It's not like I can claim that I manufactured the product - simply examining the deed will tell you who made it. The person selling the merchandise believes that they are getting a fair and reasonable return on their pricing - if I can flip it and also make a return, where is the harm? It's still a win-win situation.
I don't think it is wrong or rude to buy materials products and resell them. Sorry, I didn't mean to imply that. And of course you don't have to ask permission.
But some crafters have a negative reaction to resellers and asking first will help spot those folks. Or they may have a more favorable reaction to it if asked first. Where is the harm in asking?
People who undercut either have a method, which you either match, or you don't. That's up to you. Complaining about it won't get a thing in this world or the world we play in, because no matter what you do, there will always be someone who can do it better. That's a fact of life, and I hate it as much as the next guy. If they don't have a method, then sooner or later they'll be out of business, or selling for a more "reasonable" price.
I see a lot of anger on the forums. And why wouldn't you be angry? After all, someone is apparently getting more success than you are! And the root of all these problems come down to one thing -- competition -- because that's what this game is, and its how people will naturally play it. SWG is at its heart, a game, if not, through and through. People play to win, its in their nature. When people lose, they get angry, and come up with methods to get back on the ladder.
Price equalisation will never happen, because there will always be someone who knows they can sell cheaper. Thats the whole point of a player run economy. They will have the morals (or lack thereof) to do so. Its not called "Ruining the market", its called "Capitalism". Again, none of this is pretty, but who are we to voice distain over our own creation?
Currently, I sell at a price I can afford to. I get some money back, and I don't make a loss. Some might call that undercutting, because I haven't taken in the percieved value of my wares. I play for fun. Personally, I enjoy making houses and things, and I'd do it for free if I could make money using another method. Of course, my natural greed would get in the way of that, but its completely plausible.
NeilG wrote:
What drives these kind of threads or opinions, I wonder? Is it fear? It can't be a sense of "Honour" or "Fairness" with pricing tactics. After all, we're in the architect "business" to make money, and maybe have a little fun on the side. I'd go so far as to say the people complaining about others undercutting them aren't even in it for the fun. If they were, they'd be doing what they love and staying silent.
People who undercut either have a method, which you either match, or you don't. That's up to you. Complaining about it won't get a thing in this world or the world we play in, because no matter what you do, there will always be someone who can do it better. That's a fact of life, and I hate it as much as the next guy. If they don't have a method, then sooner or later they'll be out of business, or selling for a more "reasonable" price.
I see a lot of anger on the forums. And why wouldn't you be angry? After all, someone is apparently getting more success than you are! And the root of all these problems come down to one thing -- competition -- because that's what this game is, and its how people will naturally play it. SWG is at its heart, a game, if not, through and through. People play to win, its in their nature. When people lose, they get angry, and come up with methods to get back on the ladder.
Price equalisation will never happen, because there will always be someone who knows they can sell cheaper. Thats the whole point of a player run economy. They will have the morals (or lack thereof) to do so. Its not called "Ruining the market", its called "Capitalism". Again, none of this is pretty, but who are we to voice distain over our own creation?
Currently, I sell at a price I can afford to. I get some money back, and I don't make a loss. Some might call that undercutting, because I haven't taken in the percieved value of my wares. I play for fun. Personally, I enjoy making houses and things, and I'd do it for free if I could make money using another method. Of course, my natural greed would get in the way of that, but its completely plausible.
Just want you to admit one thing.. that some that price so low also do that out of fear.. fear that that is the only way they can make sales.. ... in which case it isnt always about a method...
My personal stance Is I dont care.. I am just trying to look at the whole picture.. and some of you have the arguement that you want your prices fair and in a range that everyone can afford even the person just starting out.. But if you go to far.. and make it too easy then you might as well stand there in Mos espa waiting for people to spawn and the little green droid to say welcome to SWG.. and then tip that guy a few 100k.. If you do that.. Have you helped them? or have you just took away from him all those really cool experiences you encountered when you first started playing and were exploring the new game and learning how to play?
That right there is my point in a hand basket....
Dvnce wrote:
NeilG wrote:
(Long piece of text)Just want you to admit one thing.. that some that price so low also do that out of fear.. fear that that is the only way they can make sales.. ... in which case it isnt always about a method...
My personal stance Is I dont care.. I am just trying to look at the whole picture.. and some of you have the arguement that you want your prices fair and in a range that everyone can afford even the person just starting out.. But if you go to far.. and make it too easy then you might as well stand there in Mos espa waiting for people to spawn and the little green droid to say welcome to SWG.. and then tip that guy a few 100k.. If you do that.. Have you helped them? or have you just took away from him all those really cool experiences you encountered when you first started playing and were exploring the new game and learning how to play?
That right there is my point in a hand basket....
I completely agree with you. A lot of people price down their items because they're afraid they won't sell. And as you say, these people without methods will soon be either out of the market, or selling higher.
The point I'm getting across is that its always possible to "join them" instead of beating them, and complaining or campaigning against what is perfectly fair comeptition has never done any good.
Dark_0ne wrote:someone asked the question - why are we in the architect business ?and his answer was - to make money and have a little fun on the side.Well - if that is the only reason for being an architect, then I may as well drop the skill points now !!As far as I am concerned, I am an architect to build things people need.90% of what I build is for my guild, and I charge what I see fit to them - enough to cover the costs of harvesting resources + a bit extra to boost the bank balance.I'm not one of these people who measure success by the size of my bank balance. I hear all these people saying "woot I got x million credits in the bank - I must be a great architect !! "Just face it - some people don't 'work' that way.I suspect that my orders will drop off considerably once the holo grind is done, then I may rethink my strategy, and increase my prices inversely with the drop off of orders so I keep the same income ......
If you read my post carefully, I am talking about being in an architect business, not the profession itself. You can be an architect without running a business as one.
Dark_0ne wrote:
ok NeilG/Sharwyn - I know you were emphasising the business aspect of the profession,I guess I was taking it personally about the general idea of how some of us are deliberately or naively charging far too little for the architect products.......
There is a diffence of being a city architect of PA architect and making items for them.... and an architect that markets to the open public.. Heck I made items for my city for free... It was my part of being in that group..
My whole stance is that ( even myself is guilty of this) is that almost everyone is not calculating 2 important items into their price structers.. and that is .. 1) The larger of our items are supposed to be a VERY BIG deal to own.. 2). Our Items dont degrade so they are a 1 time purchase items... So put 1 and 2 together that should add Huge to Value..
I am not argueing against the price.. I am argueing that we make it toooooo easy for people to obtain our best of the best..
NeilG wrote:
I completely agree with you. A lot of people price down their items because they're afraid they won't sell. And as you say, these people without methods will soon be either out of the market, or selling higher.
The point I'm getting across is that its always possible to "join them" instead of beating them, and complaining or campaigning against what is perfectly fair comeptition has never done any good.