Architect Archive
Thread: Top 5 Issues (rough Draft) 2.06.04
Tweaky wrote:
The resource stack size and crate size would help with database issues. Each item (or icon) is one record, with a quantity field. Raising the quantity field limit would not affect the database at all, except to the good by creating fewer items/icons. Those that say they keep 1k GTs on hand...great. If that fits into 10 crates of icons, instead of 67, the DB load is that much less. Also, having 10 crates of 100 GT's is less load than the current minimum of 16 stacks of stuff. Even going to 1M stack size, we still need a minimum of 6 stacks. Having 1M stacks would cut down considerably...for me, it would create a bunch of 200-800k stacks. Even those that have huge stores of resources would see a drastic reduction in number of icons. And there would not be that much more hoarding. Those folks that truly hoard stuff can still only get so much stuff out of the ground. It may allow them to pull up a couple houses and plant a few more harvs, but even then you are looking at no more than a couple more stacks of resources per week. The change may not reduce the total number of items/icons in game by much (for the hoarders), but it would tend to reduce the expansion via lot trades and such. I have considered doing a lot trade to get an extra 20 lots (my wifes acct and mine). With these changes, I would not need to. And to the one that said they would keep the same number of crates, regardless of size...why in the world would you need 6.7k GTs on hand? Even 1k of them seems a bit overboard (to me...you may have reason).
The biggest help I see coming from the crate change would be the ability to do decent size runs of final products. Being limited to a max of 28 Heavy Minerals sucks. Of course, I could sit around and babysit the factory, dropping in extra stuff from my inventory/backpack...but even that only gets the max to 60, and with some creative use of the output hopper on top of that(start the HMMI run with it full of OMUs) you could make 90 HMMIs. A little over half the full schem run of HMMIs (166 due to SSSMs). And that means having nothing in inventory, bag, or either hopper that is not for this run....assuming you can even get the output that full...my factories all choke anywhere from 60-80 items in output. And it means sitting at the factory dumping stuff in for up to 7 hours....and hope you don't LD or warp away from the factory, or the Input hopper closes and you have to stop the factory to open it back up. (why can I look at the output but not the input when factory is running?)
Gawd I ramble.
Message Edited by Tweaky on 02-10-2004 06:09 AM
I'm not sure I agree that most architects do not have the space for this kind of storage, most of us have found ways around the limited storage issues, I for example do not consider myself one of the BIG archs, (maybe I am in the second division) I concemtrate on harvesters and I regularly have 500-1000 gen turbines, 1000+ structural storage units, 500+ walls (not to mention allmy resources,omu/mm/fdp's etc.). The point is that I am able to store ALL of these today, I could store 10 times this if I wanted without too much effort, but I have them and they are using up database space. If they stacked in 1,000s instead of 10's 20's or even 1's in some cases this would surely be better for everybody.
PhazeDistortion wrote:
...But the point is that most architects do not have thatmuch lying around to devote solely to generator turbines.That being said, for the architects can and would make 2000 gen turbines as opposed to 300 if they had the space, they really arent hurting anything by doing so. For the majority who may make higher quantities of subcomponents, but not quite that many, it would help. So where is the harm in doing so.
Message Edited by Bandola on 02-10-2004 12:59 AM
BoberFett wrote:
Good list, but I take issue with a couple things:
Factory crates should ALL(especially Ore Mining Units) go to 100 item limit and identical crates of less than 100 items should be able to stack.
Allow resources to stack to 1million units. This will help tremendously on storage issues.
Yesh, OMUs should stack. But I don't know that allowing things to stack further would help the database. Currently it takes 10 spaces to hold 1,000,000 resources or 150 turbines. You give players larger stacks then they'll store 10,000,000 resources and 1000 turbines. The database problems remain, and the only people that benefit are the ultra-wealthy who run a hundred harvesters and produce things in mass quantities. The little guy still has his puny stacks. (And I say this as someone who is finally moving into the big time and counting resources by the million and not the thousand)
Otherwise I agree with everything else set out here.
Message Edited by BoberFett on 02-08-2004 01:57 AM
I do not know a serious, profitable, 1 character architect that doesnt crosslot. You cannot store the minimum resources need for this profession in 1 or 2 small houses. Resource stacking would reduce the number of cross lot static storage trades, IMO, as people would tend to operate at a level where they can have fun crafting without the headaches of relying on someone else. In my case, the people that drop static lots for me DO play on the server, but play more on other servers. And they live in the same RL town and are friends. I'd say that's pretty unique and techniically since they play on the server I am not doing anything more than renting their lots (for free whatever they ask).
I DO however know of architects, crafting PA's and just people in general that cross lot to overcome this storage problem. Resource and components stacking DOES take away a certain flavor from the game but given the RL financial problems SOE has with their Oracle server (btw folks, the Oracle DB is the only reason we require resets everyday I have been told) they would be doing the game players and their bottomline more benefit than harm with this change.
Seriously I use 3 houses/workshops to craft right now. One for furniture, one for harvs, and one for houses/misc. Tell me how you get and sort over 94 different components and resources and make enough to stay profitable? And please, don't tell me to run missions. I ran missions. I am a crafter. Stack the **edit** resources/components and let me craft.
Fivo Asia
Oh, and send the list now! There's at least 4 things more I want on the list but send it now and get SOMETHING fixed, please.
Fivo Asia
Cafa wrote:
I do not know a serious, profitable, 1 character architect that doesnt crosslot. You cannot store the minimum resources need for this profession in 1 or 2 small houses. Resource stacking would reduce the number of cross lot static storage trades, IMO, as people would tend to operate at a level where they can have fun crafting without the headaches of relying on someone else. In my case, the people that drop static lots for me DO play on the server, but play more on other servers. And they live in the same RL town and are friends. I'd say that's pretty unique and techniically since they play on the server I am not doing anything more than renting their lots (for free whatever they ask).
I DO however know of architects, crafting PA's and just people in general that cross lot to overcome this storage problem. Resource and components stacking DOES take away a certain flavor from the game but given the RL financial problems SOE has with their Oracle server (btw folks, the Oracle DB is the only reason we require resets everyday I have been told) they would be doing the game players and their bottomline more benefit than harm with this change.
Seriously I use 3 houses/workshops to craft right now. One for furniture, one for harvs, and one for houses/misc. Tell me how you get and sort over 94 different components and resources and make enough to stay profitable? And please, don't tell me to run missions. I ran missions. I am a crafter. Stack the **edit** resources/components and let me craft.
BoberFett wrote:
You seem to have missed my point. They currently keep 50 crates of generator turbines around (probably clogging up the vendor database using it as storage, and making it so it takes me an hour to put 20 items on my vendor) but if they stack to 100, they'll still have 50 crates of turbines, but now instead of 750 turbines, it'll be 5,000 turbines.
What you all seem to realize is that people will use every available bit of space they have. If they start letting things stack higher, do you think everyone will suddenly have empty houses? No, there are 150/250 items available in a house, and every space will always be used. People won't start leaving 100 spaces free just because things stack higher. They'll buy more furniture, they'll make more finished products. They'll still keep things in ingredient hoppers.
People will use every available space they have.
Letting things stack higher will not solve database problems at all.
I think you have missed many other peoples points. This is about our top issues, not SOE's top 5 databaseissues. This is an issue for us, being limited to a small amount of items. 15 generator turbines in a crate, yet we can have 100 structure modules in another crate. why do factory crates have different item limits when different resouces all have the 100k limit. Im not too bothered about the mineral limit, I am just fed up of the different amounts of items in different crates. If everything was 100 it would be great. light ore minind unigs come in 5's its annoying, its something that most architects believe is an issue, in the same way that riflement think their guns are too slow or carbineers think their HAM costs are too high. This is the architect equivilent.
The devs didnt have any problem adding new armor for the armorsmith to make, which would add alot more data to the database, so why would they have a problem with putting the limit to 100 items per crate. You cant argue that its about realism because someone would struggle to carry a single structure module let alone 60 crates of 100 of them + another 50 crates in a backpack.
Its increasingly seeming that we are a forgotten profession. I havnt seen anything develop in architect for the past few publishes, ore mining units still dont crate up. fusion and solar are still broken, one of the master furniture is still broken and we see (style2) in certain items but dont have the option to build any other styles.
The most recent thing is the official addition of not loosing minerals and components when we get a critical fail on assembly, which has always been in the game as a macro before anyway. From memory publish 6 has nothing in it regarding architects either. Publish 7 seems to be focused on the GCW and i find it hard to believe that we will be included in that very much. so we will be waiting atleast 2 months for anything to be done, by that time everyone would have all their houses and harvesters they need and most architects would drop the profession in favor of something that gets more attention.
BoberFett wrote:
Dvnce
If you want to buy more furntiure and have more usable space, then that's legit reason. But let's not try to hide behind the "It'll help the database" defense. You know full well what I'm talking about. People will use every space they have, whether each space holds 1 item or 1000 items. The database issue will not be fixed by making things stack higher.
its not just a defense.. it is truth .. there arent as many people that can horde the componants you are refering too.. and for my self personally .. I can tell you that It will free up 150 spaces of data icons. and that is still given me a fully decorated house.. and a fully decorated workshop... and only keeping what resources are currently being used by schematics in my factories.. If every body can reduce the data icons by even 10% of what I will be able to .. you cant tell me that wont help ..
But lets assume you are correct, and that we all have the resources to make 2000 turbines sitting around. Thats 10 stacks in aluminum, 5stacks of copper,5 stacks of ore,4 stacks of reactive gas,3 stacks of non-ferrous, 1 stack of steel, and 1 stack of chemical you''d be taking out of the db. So even if you were to go ahead and make 2000 turbines, you'd still be reducing the number of items in the db.
That is an extremely pertinent point. If I could stack gen turbines in 1000s then every stack I made would REDUCE the number of items in the db by 16 (?), whereas today If I make just 200 then I INCREASE by 7(?). The argument about archs making MORE gen turbines if they get increased crate sizes therefore SUPPORTS the idea of doing so. 
Harvesters are seriously buggy and should be betterhighlighted in importance:
- power consumption is buggy: display reads twice power consumed than normal. Have to turn harvesteroff then back on to get right display. If you redeed without resetting (off then back on), your deed records the low power amount not the real amount.
- harvester animation is broken, and has been for two or three months! How hard can this one be to fix?
- reports of harvesters not pulling the correct amount of resources and changing BER
- when you redeed a harvester (or any architecture item) it goes back to the 'default' description instead of the name the architect gave it
- BER13 heavies are not balanced with BER10 mediums - this should be revisited. Heavies should have more like BER15
- Fusion and solar generators cannot have their pull rates experimented which is a MAJOR issue!
They have really dropped the ball with harvesters!!
Surveying for a high quality resource spot is a total pain too - our tools should scan for a higher distance or something. It's just NOT FUN!
Huntercrom wrote:
What about Carb Ore? Although I use the best Ore's I can find, has anyone ever seen high veins of Carb Ore? In all the time I've been playing, I have yet to see one above 65%, yet, I can mine Steel, Aluminum, Copper and other items well into the 90's on a regular basis, everything but Ore, Carb Ore specifically of course. I'd like to see the veins get a little better for that resource, as it seems to be the heaviest used resource we have.
I have started to see veins in upper 70's on test.. although dont know if that is a rare fluke or a Great sign of things to come..
I'd like to see the issues of Crit Failures fully addressed here too.. Crit failing and loosing everything is wrong. If there is a pre-made component, i.e. Ore Mining Unit for a large mineral harvester, then it should not be sacrificed or lost to a crit failure. I don't mind losing a few resources, but to lose it all on ONE final crit failure is hard, because it moves from a few resources to alot of resources.
As of now.. on many Architect items if you crit fail you can hit assemble again.. (just dont crit fail twice in a row
I do wantsome questions answered though, and this is open to everyone, not just passing this on to the developers here:
What are the benefits of having a 90% quality house vs. a 37% quality house? Right now there are none, but wouldn't it be wise to say that a 90% quality house would be cheaper to maintain than a 37% house? I think that the rate of maintance on it should be reduced through the experimentation of quality into products like a house, factory or what ever falls into this category. Harvesters need not apply to this though.
Agreed an Idea that I personally liked that was suggested is that exp on houses could vary Storage.. If we increased storage maitanence would increase and visa versa.. with better resources reducing the penalties.. as well
Enough of that.. back to one more series on the resources:
What is wrong with the randomization of the resources and their attributes... Let's get realistic here as well. I don't see how in the world Fusion, Carb Ore, Steel, etc. etc. would ever totally be off of a planet, can ANYONE explain this to me? How does steel be there one day and not be there the next. ( Yes, I know about shifting resources, but my goodness, resources come and go, atleast the types of them anyway, but an entire line of resources doesn't just up and disappear.).
In my mind the way I roleplay this is that the resource just gets overmined.. we literally deplete the resource into nonexistance anymore.. We do take a lot out of the ground sometimes..
and about those attributes.. What is with the radomization on them? I've seen one GREAT stat get destroyed by another stat that can barely see abouve 50. I've seen Conductivity of 1000 get wiped out by a OQ of 58. When you need both stats, one is either MUCH, MUCH higher than the other, which does alot of damage to the item you are trying to build, or they are both below standards.. Trust me here folks, don't think you'd use sub-stats of less than 500 on any finished product, WOULD YOU?
He.. he.. yes very Frustrating .. but what can you do?
Well.. my rant is over with.. don't know if I'll ever see the answers to this, from other Architects or even the team leader.. I doubt that anyone with SOE creative sides or even the programming sides will address these either. Just figured I'd throw out some questions that have been on my mind, along with a few ideas as well. Toss it around if you can.. perhaps someone can better my current ideas and maybe, just maybe they'll get thrown in on the table for discussion for a future MA Update.
these do get read just because everyone doesnt get responded to doesnt mean it was missed
Wishfull thinking..
Omnicrom
