Architect Archive

Just to add a few comments I though of after I posted (stupid no edit button). Crit fails are a part of the profession, yes they suck but if our good were priced properly we could recoup the costs in no time. That's why I think creating sources of renewable income is the best way to fix the Architect profession.

Yes we are unfairly punished by crit fails but that is only because we are forced to sell at such ridiculously low prices. If the profession were properly balanced with sources of renewable income the occational crit fail on a PA hall would still be annoying but it would be a near bankrupting event.

Fix furniture.

Add Lots.

Add Remote access/payment for Harvesters.

Make large houses worthwhile to buy by increasing the items cap.

Limit redeeding of houses factories and large harvesters.

Require skills/certification to use large harvesters.

I know the Devs said ONE THING but just tell them "a viable, renewable source of income for Architects."

I think that critical failures is a great start right out of the gate! After failing multiple heavies on final combine and contemplating how my flat screen monitor would look as a frisbee, I am all for at a minimum keeping the crafted components, so we're not losing 'everything.'

Thanks for sharing your ideas with us, AA.


Spinner Gyrrl | This close > - < to being MA | Intrepid | Corellia Riverlands

Removing critical failures I doubt seriously would be an option, it would require a complete rework of the developers crafting plan. Critical failure are more painful to architects due to our resource intensity however everything about architects is based on that resource intensity.

A change that makes critical failures only effect raw materials would also be difficult to put through. On a PA hall losing raw materials only would equal less than 10% of the materials, yes you miay have had a crit fail on a subcombine previously but for a large part we can avoid those with factory useage.

Critical failures are the risk vs reward for crafting, they may not be popular and we may be hurt more by them than some classes but I feel they are a deep part of the game and making a request for such a radical change will not go over well with the designers, they are looking for fix requests not redesigns.

I would suggest that the change to our skill mods be the number one issue to look at they are the first step, if after skill mods are improved it's believed that architects are out of whack on critical failure rates then that would be the time to look at crit failure percentages and coding.

There are a large number of minor fixes that could go in that would assist our profession and not require a rebuild of the entire crafting sub game.

I realize that critical failures are a large topic on this board but I don't see it as our main problem our main problem is that we don't have a continuing market therefore any time we have a set back in production (ie a crit) we loose a portion of the current market due to not being able to complete the sale or delaying the sale and not being able to accept a new one. The continueing market should be our concern not the crits.

Idon't see bickering I see differing opinions.

The tone has been civil and those who don't agree are making calm rational arguements. Just because someone doesn't agree doesn't mean they are bickering.

If people would get off thier high horse and put on their reading glasses, they might actiually learn something.

We are ******NOT****** as to do away with crit fails.

We are asking to change the way it works.

We are ******NOT****** as to do away with crit fails.

We are asking to change it so that when you fail, you ONLY loose RAW MATERIALS used in THAT combine.

We are asking to STOP destroying SUBCOMPONENTS THAT WE HAVE ALREADY SUCCESSFULLY MADE AND THAT HAVE ALREADY PASSED THE CRIT FAIL SYSTEM.

We are ******NOT****** as to do away with crit fails.

OK, got that now? I hope you put your reading glasses on this time.

We are ******NOT****** as to do away with crit fails.

We ALL know crit fails are a part of the system and all but...

We are ******NOT****** as to do away with crit fails.

We know it's a risk versus reward thing.

We are ******NOT****** as to do away with crit fails.

I hope I got the point across to you people that have a problem with your brains and keep saying we should not do away with crits, they are part of the game, blah blah blah, brown nose, brown nose, brown nose.

We are ******NOT****** as to do away with crit fails.

I wonder if they got that through their thick heads, the part where I said

We are ******NOT****** as to do away with crit fails.

Ok the simple truth is if you state that crits are too high for us and why we only get 50 something structure assembly points then all the Devs will do is maybe give usthe 100 mark so we can't say how unfair it is that we have less points then most other crafting professions even though we have more to lose. All that means is we make all our parts and deeds a lot better then we currently do and will only slightly lower crits but not end it completely. I mean talk to the other professions that have a full 100 and they'll tell you they still critical from time to time.

Now first anyone saying how they should set it up so we get back the components don't realize that all crafters share the same program when it comes to determining whether or not you crit. So in order to saveour compentents during a failure they would have to changeall professions to do that ( won't happen)or do major revamping in the programming to just fix us( which also won't happen, we can't be special even though I wish we were). Second any wishes of not failing on final combinations will never happen either because that would be unfair to all other crafters and would probably also require some major programming to make it where just architects don't fail on major final combinations and such and suchor inother words, not going to happen. I mean come on guys it took them forever to just get harvester mechs working, soasking them to fix crits just means they are going to just raise or structure assembly and thats it. That means we will still crit and we still have a dead market.

Its simply ArchAngel, you just tell them that our profession is dead, no ends or buts about it because we have no market left.Then you do the samethingyou did with thelower crits proposaland include aproposed solutions part and put in their they should either allow us to customize furniture, or give us more furniture, or make experimenting actually mean something.

Oh and your comment about making experimenting mean something would take too much programming and such and such, thats not true. I mean one everything that we create saves a spot in the database, doesn't matter what, everything saves on the same database, including what you experiment on. Soall they have to do is make it where experimenting actually effects the finalproduct of the deed, simply as that. Second the reason why thats is so easy is because if it wasn't do you think they would be easily able to change weaponsmiths, armorsmiths, BEs, and medics stuff all the time. I mean like every patch they change something so when they experiment it makes a better product. We all use the same databases for everything so its really a simply programming correction. Why else do you think it was so easy for them to all of a sudden have crafting stations with a rating, know one knows if they do anything but they created a market for high quality crafting stations because everyone would rather be safe then sorry.

I mean come on ArchAngel I've been a Master since July, so its notlike I don't have a huge customer base or anything like that, heck I'm alsothe only Master Achitect in my entire city that has like over 50 people livingin itand the only orders I got today was a heavy and a small house. I mean during July and Aug I use to get like 3-4 PA orders a day, I mean I was so backed up it was unbelieveable but it was good and I miss those days. I mean who cares if you have a slighter chanceto critically by giving us100 structures assembly points,when at most you will only get like 0-3 orders a day to have a chance to fail on.

Maller Malice

Master Architect

How do you know they won't fix it so that we don't loose subcomponents when we crit?

This whole loose everything when crit failing is due to lazy programming to begin with. It has absolutely NOTHING to do with trying to replicate RL or anything.

It's 10000 times simpler for them to write the code to just destroy everything and to heck with the players than it is to actually write a smart routine.

If this is risk vs. reward, then let me ask you why Architects don't get 200 times the reward when we have 200 times the loss than the other professions?

Simple routine. If crit and raw material, destroy. If crit and subcomponent, don't destroy.

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Scortch wrote:

How do you know they won't fix it so that we don't loose subcomponents when we crit?

This whole loose everything when crit failing is due to lazy programming to begin with. It has absolutely NOTHING to do with trying to replicate RL or anything.

It's 10000 times simpler for them to write the code to just destroy everything and to heck with the players than it is to actually write a smart routine.

If this is risk vs. reward, then let me ask you why Architects don't get 200 times the reward when we have 200 times the loss than the other professions?

Simple routine. If crit and raw material, destroy. If crit and subcomponent, don't destroy.

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If architects priced at the same rate as other artisians we would get 200 times the reward. The reason architects don't price at the same rate is the architects fault.

We use more resources than other artisians, when we fail we loose more resources than other artisians, we should price accordingly the same as other artisians do. This is notfaulty programing this isfaulty pricing.

My assumption that they won't change the coding for subcomponents is because subcomponents are generally run in a factory. Runing items in a factory removes the crit fail risk of subcomponents. A risk of 10% or less of the total resources is not going to be acceptable and would require not only a total recoding but a revamp of the entire crafting sub game. I think the thing for Archangel to do is to ask if reworking crit failures for all professions is even a possibity, not to base his top priority issue on something that most likely is not possible.

I'm a third year CS ( computer science) major at University of Texas, I've been studying programming for years and ways to optimize speed when dealing with major programs like computer and video games. What the devs did was they created a simple function program that all profession programs access to determine whether or not you fail. The function as a parameter where they would take in the certain factors to determine your percent to fail and then does a randam generator using that percent as a factor to determine whether or not you fail. Well they way it seems that it works is that components are treated just like resources and so both are lost orset tonull when you fail. So in order to ensure that we get components back when we fail they would have to do either two things. Either they make it where they change the function and make it where all crafting professions get back the compontents or they completely redo everything in the architect program so that it will call a completely different fuction(program) that will only take away ourresources and not our componentsbecause we would be the only ones that deserve to get them back because we lose the most. See either of these would require way too much programmingespecially when the firstthingthat willpop into their heads is what makesus so special,so our stuff takes more to build then why don't we just charge more to make up for it. If none of the other professions have trouble then theres no point in them wasting countless weeks try to set up a completely revised program to run the architect professoin just so we wouldn't lose components because we all shot ourselves in the foot by selling so low and not making enough to recounter crits. This is why this would never happen and this is why an increase of structure assembly is all they will ever give us if we say our biggest problem is criticals. Thats why I'm begging everyone to realize that we need to rejump or market so that we can actually have orders to worry about failing at.

Maller Malice

Master Architect

I totally 100% agree but, I think there should be *TWO* solutions that really need fixing.

Add +10 Structure Aseembly to each step of the construction line. That's where it should be to begin with. Assembly/Construction, same thing.

On crit failures, ONLY the raw materials should be deleted, not the subcomponents you have already built and passed on.

You will also need to add +5 more to Master to make it = 100

OR

If they fixed the problem of loosing subcomponents on assembly since you have already successfully completed them, they could change it to +5 on each level of construction with an additional 45 being added to Master.

/greatly disagree

I mean crits are a major problem for a lot of people, especially people not at master levelhowever what is havingless crits or no crits at higher levels at all going to do us any good if we have no market left. I mean who needs to worry about failing on a PA hall if no one is going to be ordering any of them anymore when everyone has a PA hall that wants one. Ithink our biggest concern is something to bring some life back into our market. Like decay on harvesters because of redeeding or giving us the ablitiy to change the color to furniture to increase that demand or even give people a little more space to medium and large houses so that they can actually decorate their place and give us more business. OR EXPERIMENTING actually meaning something when building harvesters, that would make a large increase in business for architects and bring value into harvesters that are made with high quality materials.

We aren't the only ones with not a full 100 points in assembly either so I feel the devs will see this and think if this is our biggest problem then there isn't any real problems with our profession and there is no real reason to not continue giving us any fixes or additions. I mean this is the second big patch with no fixes for architects and if we say this is our biggest problem then what do you think is going to happen again next patch, yup you guessed it nothing for architects for another whole patch release.

I mean come on man whats the point for begging them to give us less crits if we won't have any kind of market in the future.

Maller Malice

Master Architect, Starsider

BTW, I am a MA and I still say no to decay. I am looking at it from a players point of view, not as an Architect point of view.