Architect Archive
Thread: More changes coming to expirementation
Do you have any experimented old-style medium or heavy harvs? By that I mean the ones similar to what we can now make on live (rates 5+ on medium, 8+ on heavy) but operating under the new TC rules. I'd be curious how they have been affected... did their maint increase along with extraction, etc.
As far as I have found so far:
1) existing harvesters are not affected....
2) you can still produce higher efficency harvesters through subcomponents at no penalty
3) IF you use the expirementing to the harvest rate after final combine, it raises medium harvesters at a rate of 60cr/hr maint FOR EVERY POINT of kg/h you add
I now can give my customers an option of a 7kg/h harvester at 60 cr/hr, or of a 9kg/h harvester at a rate of 180 cr/hr
just couldn't resist chastising Dalyn for the irony in his post, since he's not exactly the poster-boy for architect profit-margin maintenance *grins*
betatoxin: You have a valid point that we're going to need a LOT more resources coming up soon. If you notice my other post of the structures coming with cities, we are going to be using a lot of metal and ore really soon. I can't say how things will go with the live economies, but on TC I expect to have orders for the highest rate mediums I can make without expirementing after the final assembly, and some heavies that are fully expiremented for the highest rate. I don't have the cash and resources to play with heavies atm, but the extra hourly cost on mediums doesn't seem to be something in demand.
As a side note.. played with a few personal minerals today and could get up to 4kg/h out of them without any noticable cost increase.. I think that will change soon, as it stands you can have a personal at 4, a medium at 7, and a heavy at 10 with no extra costs.
Dayln wrote:
Why are you taking this as good news?
Mediums with an extraction rate of 9? We will totally flood the market with products, prices on everything including these new super extractors will fall through the floor. Imagine it, and increasing number of architects will be able to make twice as much stuff at no real extra expense.
WE DONT NEED TO ADD TO THE SUPPLY SIDE, WE NEED TO ADD TO THE DEMAND SIDE!
/sigh
Why will the market be flooded? if you want to call it that. Because everyone and their brother is going to want to upgrade their harvestors, Oh, geese isn't that a demand for our product?
I still maintain that x amount of people out of a 100 WILL buy our product. There are a few that may waver or buy less depending on price or buy more depending on price, but our product will get bought. So since there are definate sales, why charge less to get the sale when you already have it. If you build it they will buy. I am not saying charge double. Your not smart or sneaky or cool if you sell for less, you are just screwing yourself out of credits. And you are cheapeing the market, for you and for yourself.
Question for ya. On the experimentation of the mining/harvesting/drilling units, are you getting them above 75%, so as to get the +4 bonus? Or did they revamp the scale on that to cap at 3? What I am getting at here is what is the absolute max we can get harverster extraction rates to?
On live right now, I could get a medium to 8KGH using just OMU's that were experimented to 76%...if I had skill tapes. With the added "Efficiency" experiment bar on the final combine, would this add a max of 2, 3, or 4 to that number, assuming good resources.
A medium that pulls 12KGH and cost 300 cr/hr to run would be fast, but inefficient. Or a A fusion pulling at 21KGH for 300 cr/hr. This is assuming we can get 4KGH from each efficiency experimentation bar ...component and final. A heavy pulling 15KGH for 330 cr/hr is even faster than that medium, and slightly more efficient (for maint, not power). That brings up another question, does power consumption get affected by any of this...or anything else?
Also, could I get you to post the Experimentation requirements for each of the changed/new schematics? Much like you did for the Heavy Mining Unit (50% UT, 25% HR, 25% SR), but for all the schems that have been modified, and the new ones.
And one last request...could you post what skill boxes each of these schems is from?
Alot to ask of someone that is probably very busy right now. I appreciate the info you have already given, and anxiously await more
well, its not quite what i thought it was, but at the same time, i'm still happy to see this change....
that being said I think these harvesting rates will be changed and lowered some....
my hope is they continue to make the requirements more and more difficult to obtain to get the higher end rates... thats the only way you can be sure someone will not start the undercutting game since the materials were a lot harder to come by than just finding the nearest vein of metal.
Ok- I have been making solely medium minerals right now (except for a test run of 6-7 personal minerals)
The light ore mining units I've used have been expiremented up to 92%- the highest possible with 10 exp points and currently avail resources. These have been giving me a 7kg/h rate on final combine... I don't know where the other point went for sure.. I'll come back to that.
The highest I have been able to achieve so far is a 9kg/h at around 74% on the final expirementation, mostly due to resource quality right now. I believe the cap will be 10 kg/h for anyone not using skill tapes or in a city.
In expirementing with personals ealier, I did notice that they started at 1kg/h now. It was possible to expirement them up to 4kg/h without much trouble, but I am GUESSING that all harvesters were set back 1 point at the start. A medium having a start base of 3kg/h would explain my 92% LOMH only raising the harvester to 7. Unfortunately, I could not get a LOMH to fail expirementation, so I can only guess at the low number... If this all goes in pattern, then4 kg/h from the subcomponent and another 4kg/h from final expirementing would be the maximum. I'm probably wrong, but I'm trying to give you my understanding of things as they happen...
lastly, the 2 new components I saw, the turbo fluidic and the heavy harvesting, were both in Installations 2 if I remember right.. Most harvesters are now using the 50% UT, 25% heat, 25% shock. I'll try to check more soon, but TC is down again... I also have a problem that I can't compare schematics to the originals, as my only arch is on TC and his schematics have will have already changed.
ahhh, so they've already lowered the pull rates a bit it seems.... good news there i think but you can still get higher if you want to pay more per hour.
Thanks for the quick response Ripster. I think you are correct in that we will be able to crank up the extraction rate +4 with the component, and another +4 with the final. The lowering of the base rate I think is needed. SOE will like the idea of pulling more resources out of the ground ... as long as it pulls more money out. And with these numbers, it is actually more efficient to not experiment the final combine for KGH. The cap of 11KGH on a medium, sounds reasonable to me, and it is what the logic of what you have posted seems to work out to. Would be expensive as heck to run one of them though. Also translates to a max of 14KGH for heavies, unless they shuffled some numbers there too.
Could also be that the final efficiency experimentation is on a shifted scale...+0 for 0-25%, +1 for 26-50%, +2 for 51-75%, and +3 for 76-100%. This would match what you got for your mediums with 74% eff. on final, and the +4 from the 92% LOMU. This drops the max medium rate to 10KGH and the max heavy rate to 13KGH.
Would also be interesting to see what is going on with Power Gens. The scales need to be shifted for those to maintain the % increase over regular harvesters. A fusion with +7KGH (20KGH total...or is it 19?) is not as large an improvement as +7(13 total) for a heavy. 117% increase for heavy, and only 54% for the fusion.
Keep us posted, and thanks again.
Rheet, I am not talking about my prices, I am talkign about what will happen shortly.
My prices are currently increasing along with everyone else, I am just commenting that as much as aI love experimentation as implemented, I can see what it is going to do to architects in the near future.
Short term sales increase ( I give it a month ) then a decline even faster then the last decline.
Player cities will again be a short term sales increase and then again a swift decline.
The declines will be faster and hit harder now that we have increased supply through extractors with higher extraction rates.
I only hope that increased extraction rates are only a pre-cursor to the implementation of decay.
Ripster26 wrote:Some more updates now that TC is back up:
the new mining heads use 50% UT, 25% heat res, 25% shock res
>
Just what I expected! But those stats often go hand-in-hand. I usually see Duralloy with high stats in all these 3 categories