Architect Archive
Thread: A Miners Message: Sent To Thunderheart
Cafa
Tue Jun 15, 2004 8:38 am
#248
GhOsT767565634765 wrote:
I do not like cross server trades for 2 reasons, they don't help the economy on a devastated server, they cause resource inflation as well as credit inflation, and on the technical side the reason we only have 10 lots may be because it will drill to much server power. Not sure about the last one butI know the other part from experience.
Um, you argument goes against experience and common sense. Supply and Demand alone dictates more product, less costs.
At least EXPLAIN why you waant to contradict 6 months of data I've seen on my server and 5,000 years of experience in human economics.
Fivo Asia
Pawlin
Tue Jun 15, 2004 9:15 am
#250
GhOsT767565634765 wrote:
I do not like cross server trades for 2 reasons, they don't help the economy on a devastated server, they cause resource inflation as well as credit inflation, ...
Cross server lot trades would increase the amount of resources available and decrease the prices.
Cross server lot trades would cause an additional money sink in the game and reduce the amount of credits in the game which in turn would also cause a small deflationary effect.
HalasterTheBlack
Tue Jun 15, 2004 9:26 am
#251
StGabriel wrote:
So you pretty much want to do away with factories then? Please, where exactly did you come up with this logic?
I'm not sure how this is related to my post, maybe you could clarify?
StGabe.
You wrote "increased output should become increasingly less efficient" or similar B.S.
Factories increase output, but are more efficient than creating items by hand.
Harvesters increase output, but are more efficient than sampling by hand.
So what you seem to be saying with that statement (that was quoted above) is that ultimately you think it's bad for the game to use factories and harvesters at all.
If that's not what you're saying, please clarify what you meant when you said that increasing output should decrease efficiency.
HalasterTheBlack
Tue Jun 15, 2004 9:39 am
#252
DingoBoi wrote:
Hardly requires cross server lot trades, you can easily find 100 lots on your server if you are willing to pay people. I did and then prompty went out of business because I couldn't keep up with the exploiting lot traders.
I'd be the legitimate one.
Your sig indicates a power supply business. How exactly can a cross-server static lot miner compete with a power miner? Power spawns travel with far too great a frequency to make that worthwhile. You should be killing them!
And that wasn't directed to you anyway. It was addressed to the dingleberry who said he'd quit if the devs eliminated x-server lot trades.
Ybagi
Tue Jun 15, 2004 9:54 am
#253
Anian wrote:
GodlyX wrote:
The way the system is set up now, there can be heavy mineral mining installations for as far as the eye can see in a popular area all put down by one person with cross-server lots; they can be in one spot for months even! This is UNFAIR to other players, especially newer players. In theory, it is EXPLOITATION (Please look it up in the dictionary if you disagree) and needs to be rectified.
Exploitatoin in the real world and in this game are two greatly different things. I can look up definitions in the dictionary til I grow old and grey. But, it won't pertain to this game at all.
Anian
How are they different?
As it stands your statement is probably the dumbest remark I have read on these forums to date; and that's saying alot.
joined42904
Tue Jun 15, 2004 10:58 am
#254
Halaster,
What St. Gabe actually said is this:
I think this is basically what is intended, or if anything, increased resource output should become increasingly less efficient. What we see instead is that large scale production is more efficient which is the very problem.
Do you see the difference? He is specifically addressing resources, not production.
Cafa
Tue Jun 15, 2004 11:29 am
#255
StGabriel wrote:
Because it will make folks take the same amount of time and work per harvester (roughly) regardless of how many accounts they have. If someone with 4 accounts can manage 40 harvs in only 150% the time that it takes a person with one account to manage 10 harvs, that's unfair.
I think this is basically what is intended, or if anything, increased resource output should become increasingly less efficient. What we see instead is that large scale production is more efficient which is the very problem. It seems somewhat likely that something will be done about this, and if nothing is, I think this will prove detrimental the economy (especially for items that require lower amounts of resources such as meds, weapons and dmuggler goods). Many think that the disappearance of holo-grinding will magically fix everything. I doubt this. Taking away hologrinding will only remove one resource sink in the system thus making the resource gluts worse, if anything.
StGabe.
Gabe it worked WELL before the grind, then demand exceeded supply. Guess what!?!
To other nerf posters here:
I tire of players being blamed for management decisions (especially the BAD ones) and I truly am amazed at the short-sitedness of people here screwing over guilds with their fast fix attitudes.
When quests go into effect, I will run all 7 of my family accounts through them to get the second slot.
I currently have well over 20 guild characters that will places lots when called to help.
Hope you all are ready for the hell being advocated here, because based on your inputs you're ultimately asking to screw yourselves over. Each and every idea here does nothing more than support well established manufacturers and guilds, like me and mine. Keep it up! We'll appreciate the advantage from your "fix".
Fivo Asia
StGabriel
Tue Jun 15, 2004 12:22 pm
#256
So you pretty much want to do away with factories then? Please, where exactly did you come up with this logic?
I'm not sure how this is related to my post, maybe you could clarify?
StGabe.
I'm not sure how this is related to my post, maybe you could clarify?
StGabe.
LoneWulff
Tue Jun 15, 2004 12:39 pm
#257
mhal9000 wrote:
You're wrong on that point, but this isn't the area to discuss it. I'd suggest you start a thread in the merchant forums, but we've had so many telling us your exact POV that I think everyone is a little burned out on the subject.
LoneWulff wrote:
managing vendors isn't currently a merchant skill.
The way it works now is you get merchant skill place your vendors then you can completely drop all merchant skill and still use your vendors.I think you misunderstand my POV I'm stating how it works now not how I think it should work.I think you should have merchant skill if you want to use a vendor.However none of this was the main point of my original post which is rifleman or any other combat professionwho have no crafting skills shouldn't be able to use harvesters.
bluejanus
Tue Jun 15, 2004 12:48 pm
#258
Well if we want to get nitpicky, vendors start with Business 3 in Artisan which is how any Merchant generally starts getting merchant exp anyways, so not quite a purely Merchant skill.
LoneWulff wrote:
mhal9000 wrote:
You're wrong on that point, but this isn't the area to discuss it. I'd suggest you start a thread in the merchant forums, but we've had so many telling us your exact POV that I think everyone is a little burned out on the subject.
LoneWulff wrote:
managing vendors isn't currently a merchant skill.
The way it works now is you get merchant skill place your vendors then you can completely drop all merchant skill and still use your vendors.I think you misunderstand my POV I'm stating how it works now not how I think it should work.I think you should have merchant skill if you want to use a vendor.However none of this was the main point of my original post which is rifleman or any other combat professionwho have no crafting skills shouldn't be able to use harvesters.
Redguard
Tue Jun 15, 2004 12:50 pm
#259
As far as this post goes I want the miners to understand something. I can appreciate the work that you've done. I can even understand your position when SOE didnt provide you with any direction. Spirit of the game is a pretty broad rationalization for a fix. Initially I was angered by what I saw as rationalizations to continue practicing unethical behavior. This is a problem that is not just a miner issue as there are a number of professions who can participate in activities that are not within the spirit of the game.
That being said, I'm not going to regret the loss of your opportunity to practice cross server trades. I would hope that you would find this an opportunity to possibly work within your servers and contribute to the economy through interaction with the playerbase. You should by now realize that dumping 400 harvesters worth of resources into the market probably wasn't such a hot idea. There may be some inflation when the fix comes in but that increase in price will reflect actual value of resources. Hologrinding will go away but grinding is a fixture of the game so I wouldn't look for any huge diminishement in demand. You will have the opportunity to make revenue so I really cannot see this as such a bad thing. Actually I see this as an opportunity to make a similar amount of income with less work. Well thats my 2cr on the matter.
StGabriel
Tue Jun 15, 2004 1:23 pm
#260
You wrote "increased output should become increasingly less efficient" or similar B.S
Well, I was talking about resources, not actual crafted item production. But for what it's worth, factories actualy enable the more casual crafter, particularly when lot trading is minimized. Factories allow more casual players a certain level of production regardless of how often they log in and cannot be ramped up simply by having lots of resources (well except they cacn with lots of resources and lots of lots). As such, it is productive for the aims that I am mentioning, making casual play rewarding but allowing decreasing returns for increased effort. Factories are great when they remove tedium and enable a certain standard of production even for more casual gamers.
On the flip side, think you can make an argument that factories (in their current state) are somewhat of an enabler for economic imbalances. To see this simply compare the markets for fast-production items such as weapons and powerups versus slower production items, such as armor. I think it is clear that the armor market is much more healthy these days and I think it can be argued that a large part of this is that a suit of 3-layer composite takes 6 hours of factory time versus a few minutes for other items, creating a gate that limits crafters from "dumping" the market.
So, if you do wish to talk about factories, which was not really related to my initial post but is intersting itself, I think you'll find that factories, as they stand both support the more casual playstle but also potentially assist in certain economic imbalances.
To digress, I think that the following quote is very useful whenever we discuss complex questions like MMORPG economics:
"For every complex question there is a simple answer. And it's wrong." -- HL Mencken
Well, I was talking about resources, not actual crafted item production. But for what it's worth, factories actualy enable the more casual crafter, particularly when lot trading is minimized. Factories allow more casual players a certain level of production regardless of how often they log in and cannot be ramped up simply by having lots of resources (well except they cacn with lots of resources and lots of lots). As such, it is productive for the aims that I am mentioning, making casual play rewarding but allowing decreasing returns for increased effort. Factories are great when they remove tedium and enable a certain standard of production even for more casual gamers.
On the flip side, think you can make an argument that factories (in their current state) are somewhat of an enabler for economic imbalances. To see this simply compare the markets for fast-production items such as weapons and powerups versus slower production items, such as armor. I think it is clear that the armor market is much more healthy these days and I think it can be argued that a large part of this is that a suit of 3-layer composite takes 6 hours of factory time versus a few minutes for other items, creating a gate that limits crafters from "dumping" the market.
So, if you do wish to talk about factories, which was not really related to my initial post but is intersting itself, I think you'll find that factories, as they stand both support the more casual playstle but also potentially assist in certain economic imbalances.
To digress, I think that the following quote is very useful whenever we discuss complex questions like MMORPG economics:
"For every complex question there is a simple answer. And it's wrong." -- HL Mencken